The argument that SOS was a defender and has it easier is a valid one. I always wanted SOS to play forward more often for that reason and I thought Jakovich and Sexton should have been tried forward for that reason also.

I was just having a think about that and I think to gain a reputation a forward needs to average between 3-4 goals a game and if he has a bad week there's a bit more of an allowance for that. You can blame the conditions, his delivery, a whole range of things for the occassional bad week. He can kick 6 the next week and maintain his average.

For a defender though, the beltings stay fresh in the mind and really if you have more than 2 kicked on you then you've been beaten.

So while they have it a bit easier, they're also marked harder.

Ablett kicked a lot of great goals, and was a freakish player, SOS had a great record, better than anyone else, on the gun forwards and in big games.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Ablett gave SOS a bigger rap than anyone else than he was quoted about.

He just said they never matched up until he was 31 and passed his prime.

I doubt anyone could consistantly hold Ablett in his prime

i remember jakovich did go forward a couple of times, but if my memory serves me well, he didn't look at all comfortable

Theres some interesting reading in this thread. He is a shite bloke but will go down as one of the greatest ever, that 89 finals series was brilliant. People carry on about how good Carey was but they have short memories. The final Ablett played against Melbourne in the pissing rain at the 'G' was absolutely incredible. Lets not forget Melbourne were Grand Finalists the year prior (yes they got spanked) but they were quality opposition. Not to mention his efforts in the Grand Final.

Yes in 95 SOS killed him but Ablett wasn't exactly spoilt for opportunity, nor was he in the other 2 Grand Finals they got spanked in, lets put things in perspective. To say that he never performed in big games is absolute rubbish.

His whole 1989 finals series was brilliant.

It is a shame that Channel 7 have deleted (or lost) the footage, as I would love to watch his matches of 89 again, but just like most Carlton footage from the 80's - it is lost for all time.

Anyway, back to Ablett

1989 preliminary final - 8 goals
1989 1st semi - 7 goals.

1992 grand final he did ok - wasn't thrashed or whatever- 3 goals.

This is probably the most ridiculous comment I have ever seen!!!

SOS = legend of the game

Ablett = legend of the game

Yes, SOS had Ablett's measure but pick up Plugger Lockett's book and he ate SOS for breakfast!

Both total and utter champions in their own right and I was lucky enough to see both play.

Please don't be influenced about what Ablett has done after he retired as it has nothing to do with his skill and achievements on the football field!!

Our President isn't an Angel in the business world but jesus can he turn a football club around!

Lets not get too precious about Ablett's comments as there is more to life my fellow baggers.....like the 2008 season!!

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All hail the might and power of Sir Richard....putting Carlton back to where it should be.............arrogant and talking of premierships again.

good post baggers!

Agree.

And I also concur with the person who mentioned forward line delivery into the Geelong F50 in the 95GF. If you remember that game (and how could you not), he hardly got a decent sniff because the midfield kicking the ball to him either didn't get it or kicked it so poorly, it never gave Ablett or Brownless a chance.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

My only problem with Ablett was that he was not a team orientated player. Brilliant individual but high maintenance, SOS on the other hand was a brilliant individual but relatively low maintenance.

The greatest player of all time shouldnt rely on perfect delivery. Courtney Johns didnt

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T E A M

Forget about the other finals, we're talking Ablett vs SOS here and SOS wins hands down. Speaking of hands, he was only able to raise one above his shoulder in not only the '95 GF but the whole finals series. To beat players of the standard he did far outweighs any Ablett performance.

[quote="HELLAS BLUE"][quote="BlueLife"][quote="Punter22"][quote="sideshow bob"]i'm not rubbishing abblett, i've stuck up for him more than once in here.
he had so much talent it was a joke.

but he's way off the mark saying he had sos's measure.

and i stand by what i said about him not being a big game player. (except for when geelong lost the GF in 89)

he may have won 100 games off his own boot, but i don't remember any of them being finals[/quote]

PLEASE tell me you are joking. Ablett's finals series in 89 was probably the greatest finals series by an individual player in history.

Yes, he got towelled up by SOS in 95, but do you people watch finals involving other teams? He was a monster in big games his whole career. Name me one player who didn't have an off day in at least one big match they played in.

The tunnel vision in this thread is staggering. We are talking about one of the top 3 players in the history of the game.[/quote]

Ablett failed in 3 of the 4 Grand Finals he played in. There is no pressure like a Grand Final. Yes he was a great player in 1 of them, but that is a pretty poor strike rate and puts him a long way down in my list of champions.[/quote]

Forget about the other finals, we're talking Ablett vs SOS here and SOS wins hands down. Speaking of hands, he was only able to raise one above his shoulder in not only the '95 GF but the whole finals series. To beat players of the standard he did far outweighs any Ablett performance.[/quote]
Ablett was carrying an injury in 95 GF and Peter Dean was used as a 2nd defender for the majority of the match on him. Filling space and did a fantastic job spoiling. Not that it matters, the blue boys pummelled them.

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Chris Judd: 'I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and realise pressure points are no laughing matter.'

I agree with everything Nick Carstairs wrote.

But hanging a bit of shit in defense of SOS as a Carltonian is just a bit of fun.

I don't think the comments denying the greatness of Ablett the footballer are serious. Just fun. Aren't they?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

that's what i thought, just like being at the ground and hanging shit on the oppositions best player isn't it?

Course they are! Just getting kudos for Peter Dean he was awesome that year. And I think the only forward who beat SOS badly was Lockett that year in one of the two losses. I hate it when people say he wouldn't make it in todays game, he beat Lloyd regularly (though he is a girly man). He was awesome.

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Chris Judd: 'I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and realise pressure points are no laughing matter.'

Jeez,i remember a day at Princes Park when Ablett was manned up by Tommy Alvin.Tommy gave Ablett the mother of all shellackings to the point where Ablett was removed from the ground..............
Tommy,along with Paul Meldrum,rarely get a mention on this site.Both fine footballers,and very underated.

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All my dangerous friends

I @#$%&! loved tommy alvin. One of my favorite players as a kid.

Thanks for reminding me of that game Mick - it was an inspired match up - although there was another time at VFL Park (I think it was a night game) where Ablett kicked 5 or 6 in 1 quarter and I think Tommy was on him at one stage.

Meldrum was unlucky not to win a Brownlow - he was actually leading with 15 votes (5 x 3 votes) at about Round 15 (was it 1987??? ) - I would check over at Blueseum but the internet is playing funny buggers tonight and the site is down (amongst many others - TC seems to be the only site I can get to ).

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

It was indeed 1987.

Tommy Alvin was very underrated. Had a tonne of courage and was versatile enough to play on someone Ablett's size or take a resting rover in defence and still be able to take a tagging job in the midfield.

I remember his first game at VFL Park in 1984. My Dad said after the game that Alvin was just running around in cricles. It took a while for him to win us over, but once he did he became a favourite.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Meldrum would have shat the brownlow in if it wasn't for the Motley accident.

Paul was the first on the scene and the psychological trauma killed his form. He never recaptured the form he had in early 87.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.