Synbad has covered it pretty well.

Sydney Blue, keep believing your fairy tales if you want but the Legends stand was a poor business/football decision with or without the Dome.

Not only did it provide seating where you had to pay extra to have the pleasure of having the sun in your eyes the whole afternoon (and they wonder why it was always half empty ) it also changed the dimensions and length of the ground which had previously always added to the home ground advantage for decades (always famous for being a short ground).

Instead of making PP the same length as the MCG, we should have been at the MCG.

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Great article IMHO!

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/p ... 78806.html

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2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

I picked that move....

Pratt stays for as long as he likes... thats all....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yes, but we need Carl Peterson also down to the blues, i hear he is god reincarnated,the great man Sir Carl Peterson he should be Knighted.

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Bang Bang.

Wrong The Game. Elliot announced that the TD home games "trial" was over at the 2002 EGM in Nov or Dec, just before his board stood down. He said home games are back at OO because we make more money there.

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T E A M

I have to go into bat for Sydney Blue here.

When Elliott went ahead with the Legends Stand - the Dockland Stadium had not even been thought of.

We went ahead on the development in good faith - and the original plans was for the Legends Stand to be built on a more acute angle and higher - also a lot larger with total ground capacity of 45,000.

All of a sudden Graeme Samuel who was Chairman of the Docklands Development Authority and AFL Commissioner - got the Dockland Stadium moved from Olympic Park where it was going to be originally.

Then all of a sudden the Melbourne City Council - arked up on the plans at Princes Park and wanted it smaller - why would you have a stadium of 45,000 at Princes Park when you were going to have a 55,000 stadium at Docklands.

Carlton were definitely "arseholed" by the AFL, MCC, Dockland Authority (Graeme Samuel) - Elliott of course did himself no favours (and as a consequence Carlton had no favours either) over the Legends Stand Development.

However one thing is certain - had the development of Princes Park gone ahead as planned with capacity for 45,000 and the Legeneds Stand was built to its original plans - ie. taller and on a higher angle - the business case for Docklands would not have stacked up.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Too true...............

too true...........!

worst......design..................................EVA.............!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

Fair enough I can't remember that but I do remember Collo using us to get to his beloved Telstra dome then leaving when he got what he wanted. Oh and bending over to the AFL draft penalties because he was buddies with them was a dog act too. Did Collo do anything right in his term? That's right he re-signed that masterful coach we've had the last 5 years!

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I know about the higher angle version of the stand (which is what should have been built if any stand was built there). Fact is Elliot went ahead and built the low angle version which was idiotic.

I'm not sure the business plan for a 45,000 seat stadium would have worked at PP anyway. One of the main reasons non-Carlton supporters hated going to the ground was the horrendous traffic conditions around the ground, little public transport. Even though I don't like Docklands the access to the stadium is excellent.

There was an excellent Masters Thesis written about the history of the ground by a TBV/TC poster which outlined very well the long long history of battles with council, locals and at times the VFL/AFL. When you have three powerful groups like this against you I do not see how a 45,000 seat PP would ever have been possible or profitable.

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Probably wouldn't have been profitable and certainly - both Dockland Stadium and Princes Park would both struggle to be profitable with one being 45,000 and the other being 55,000.

For example where would Melbourne Victory and perhaps Melbourne Storm be playing??? - and would the boutique stadium at Olympic Park ever got up.

In anycase John Elliott had offended and put everyone off-side by that stage - so they made it their business to @#$%&! John Elliott which by definition [REDACTED] up Carlton.

John Elliott should have had the sense to see that it was a personal vendetta against him and done something to alleviate that.

But the C$#TS at AFL House - made sure that Carlton were flowered over as well - despite us removing Elliott - this is what pisses me the most.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

When Elliott first proposed the 'Legends' stand, he was warned against proceeding with the project by the AFL, which should have started the alarm bell ringing that something else was planned.

Then the Melbourne City Council was next, telling our club the plans were unacceptable, yet Elliott was still stupid enough to proceed.

In this case Synbad's absolutely right: Elliott was at fault. To blame outside entities for the 'Legends' disaster is illogical at best. They warned us BEFORE the project started, not to mention we could've gone to the MCG, which I'd suggest the majority of Blues supporters would've agreed with at the time.

Elliott might not be totally to blame for the financial disaster we found ourselves in, but in this instance, he was able to take all the credit.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

the legend stand had the worse sight lines of any stadium ever in the AFL, that group of save princess park residents had carlton by the Balls, once the light towers and the orignal plans were rejected the redevelopment was doomed .

Not entirely correct - the AFL had given assurances at the time in the early to mid 90s about so many games to be played at Princes Park - and for it to be used as the 3rd Melbourne Stadium behind MCG and Waverley.

However when Elliott saw - the collective push headed by Graeme Samuel to ram the Docklands Project through - he should have thought better of the whole Princes Park Proposal.

Nothwithstanding you cant deny Carlton were caught in the cross-fire which was to "GET ELLIOTT".

The AFL flowered a significant part of their franchise for 6 years in their "mania" to "GET ELLIOTT".

What pisses me off is that they continued to do this even though the members removed Elliott.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

My wife was an engineer on the project to build the stand and still remembers very well how the original design was much steeper but also went much further back into the parkland. Quite a few large trees had to be removed with the original plan. She also remembers the lobbying that went on from the local residents which caused the adoption of the alternative and highly compromised end product.

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Also that bit about the sun being in everybodies eyes in the Legends Stand doesnt really wash.

Their is EXACTLY the same problem with the new stand built on the eastern side of Kardinia Park Geelong - and they are going to extend the stadium.

And at the MCG if you are in the first 20 rows of the Great Southern Stand - you dont exactly escape the sun's glare on a sunny day either.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

correct me if I am wrong but didn't Geelong just build a stand where your staring straight into the sun. And are they now a more profitable club with the redevelopment and playing games at home then they were some years back . And opposition supporters wont go to OO because of traffic but will travel nearly and Hour plus to Geelong ?????

ITs a bizzare world you live in down at Melbourne and I better get on to the Swans as the SCG are building a stand on the old hill and guess what you are staring into the sun .

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

But PP runs north/south and the MCG runs east/west.

When you are at the southern stand at the MCG your eyes follow the game from one end to the other and you do not have to stare directly into the sun for most of the game (the game moves east/west).

At the southern end of PP the game is entirely played in front of you and you have no choice but to stare into the glare for the entire game (the game moves north/south).

There was a very good reason why that end of the ground was standing room.

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you beat me to it

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Certainly Legends Stand as it currently stands is like the proverbial horse designed by a committee - (looks more like a camel ).

However had it been allowed in its original concept and not been compromised by the AFL's mania to sell off Waverley and move the funds to Docklands - I think would have been a financial bonanza for the club.

- it would certainly been the venue of choice for the home games of Melbourne Clubs playing interstate sides.

- revenue from reserved seat sales would have been significant

- potential for games played by the Melbourne Rugby League and Soccer Franchises.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I seriously doubt the theatre going fusspots that constitute the majority of football supporters these days would have put up with the traffic congestion that a 45,000 seat stadium would have caused in that area.

Either much improved public transport would be needed or people would just not go.

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