BM, Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Dannyboy, all we need is johnno jnr and a few growth hormones

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The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Ronald Reagan

interesting thread danny!

the paradox with whits in my view is that he actually SEEMS to be a good leader out on the ground. he has a big nick style about him, pointing to where guys should position themselves while he contests a stoppage etc. added to this is his renown footy brain and the club would've thought "wow ... big nick II". unfortunately, lance has proved himself to be a poor leader off the field with his inability to get himself fit ... the basic requirement of an elite footballer!

just on johnno ... IIRC he had that shocking back injury during most of his term as captain which i think led to him relinquishing it or the club taking it off him.

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

Hatred and money- sucking leech aside, I agree with DB. Hamill would've made a good captain of our current side. IMO, he has shown his leadership skills with the way he has influenced and inspired the young St Kilda team when he first moved there and the way both he and Thomas helped turn around the Saints' bad footy culture (Thomas- yep shit coach. But I give him some credit for the changes he has made since taking over that club). Hamill certainly has a presence on the field and could make his teammates walk taller.

And now that I've got that off my chest.... I never want to speak of the D***head in such glowing terms ever again!!

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When Dick became President, it was as if everyone at Carlton came out of the hailstorm and into the sunshine - Stephen Kernahan

YARRAN!!





.

Let's not forget that the market (and eventually St Kilda) put a greater price on Hamill's head than he himself first did. Hamill's management approached the club early in the season of his departure with a request that equated to an average of $300k over the length of the contract (I believe). Still high perhaps, but for a young leader with his star on the rise, not a bewildering demand. For whatever reason, we baulked, delayed negotations, other parties got a sniff, offers were made, Elliott shot his mouth off and the rest is history.

Would be leading the club now, formally or otherwise, if it weren't for our pig-headed former president. I still hold Elliott personally responsible for this debacle. Hamill's contribution to his side is far greater than the sum of his parts - our team would've walked taller in his company. Oh well.

don't also forget that hamill's dog of a manager did a deal with sydney, then used this to get and even better deal with st kilda!

who's to say that hamill would've become the "great" leader had he stayed at carlton? maybe he had to leave carlton to become a leader! had he stayed he may have been one of those who rebelled against pagan ... we will never really know.

the over-inflated salary he received at st kilda may have accelerated his leadership qualities cos he may have been desperate to avoid being seen as a mercenary. had he remained at carlton, he may have just continued cruising along in the comfort zone like his mates have ... like i said, we'll never really know .... but it's a fascinating topic nevertheless.

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

but the thing is maxy forget our views listen to any footballer or coach when they talk about Hamill. their eyes light up. Why? Cos he only knows how to play 1 way. I think Elliot in his stupid turd ignorance assumed hamill would never leave 'cos no one leaves carlton' Well he did and he is a leader and we are berefit of them.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

What if?

What if Motley hadn't had a car accident? What if Platten had've chosen Carlton? What if Kernahan crossed in 1982? What if Jezza hadn't split to StKilda?

Who knows?

What if you weren't such a stirrer and let us discuss this good topic.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Hamill was my favourite player and I was devastated the day he announced he was leaving.
But he blossomed at St Kilda because they created an environment where leadership is encouraged and should be aspired to.
We can rightly bag Thomas for his coaching inadequacies but his player management skills are very good.
Had Whitnall gone to the Saints instead of Hamill, he may have been a great leader as well.

I fear our problem may be less about personalities and more about where our club is at.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Well, all of those things could've worked in our favour, and didn't. Who knows? We could've won three or four more premierships. We could have 20 flags. But we don't. And then again, we could be exactly where we are now.

It's time to look forward. Not back.

of course danny .... i haven't forgotten that at all.

i'm not going by my personal feelings re hamill, i'm going on what parkin told me personally (ok, it's parkin ... )! ok, we may have botched the hamill thing big time, no doubt about that ... but ..

all i'm saying is this ... for whatever reasons we got to a point where too many carlton players did the reverse kennedy thing ... "ask not what i can do for carlton, but ask what carlton can do for me ... "

so i'm posing is, hypothetically of course, would hamill, had he remained, fallen into this mantra? like i said, we'll never know. he may well have become a fabulous leader and been the tonic to smash that cancer .... or he too may have been contaminated!

all i'm saying is maybe, just maybe, he HAD to leave carlton to become this player that has everyone in the football world salivating ... so i don't think i'm letting my personal feelings interfere at all ... i guess what i'm saying is that maybe we had become a terminal basket case by that stage!

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

Why is it?

can't both be done?

And yes i wish jezza had never left - should i not?

this argument about looking forward is the most inane, stupid and useless decree going around (yes it even beats Agro's pffft - at least thats an emotional response - albiet limitied, very unusual for Agro really)

Do you really think eyes must be only foreward looking?

Why do we humnas possess hindsight?????

Oh gee maybe its a tonsil thing!!!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

If you choose to constanly lament the past and dwell in the agony of what could've been...fair enough. I don't. I look fondly on the past, embrace the now and welcome the future with open arms.

Great thread.

Like BV I was gutted when it was announced Hamill was leaving. I can understand the club's rationale, but I was still gutted, and I think with Danny's question he's probably nailed the reasons why I was so upset.

I believe that Hamill already had the makings of a good leader, and obviously the club saw this too by honouring him with the #4 guernsey, the first player after Sticks to wear it. Aaron may never have become a great Carlton player, but I think he had the potential to be a great Carlton leader, whether that's was as a captain, or in a more generic role.

That's that bit dealt with. Now, how would he have handled the post Elliott years and the Pagan regime? That's somehting we'll never know. By the weight of numbers you'd reckon he would have been pretty disrupted by the coach's new ways. If he was to be the great Carlton leader that I think he could have been then I'd like to suggest he would have played a strong role in moving forwards with Pagan ... but I'm just as likely to be wrong.

C'est la vie.

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I think Hamill would have worked quite well under Pagan's game plan.

I wonder what our forward line would have been like with both Fevola and Hamill in it.

Really makes you think.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Do we really want his broken down body playing 12 games a year?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

a post-modern re-working of "the illiad":

the story so far: helen, bride of king menelaus, has fallen for paris, prince of troy. as menelaus addresses the assembled leaders of the city states of greece, a note arrives bearing the royal seal of priam, king of troy.

ACT I, SCENE I:

Menelaus is handed the note, and reads out aloud to the gethered throng of the rulers of the greek states:

Menelaus: "my fellow greeks, we should abandon our quest to seek retribution from troy for the loss of honour resulting from the taking of the queen of sparta, my bride helen"!

Agamemnon: "but why should we accept this insult brother?"

Menelaus: "the trojans have stated that we should move on"!!!

the curtain comes down to thunderous applause from the audience!!!!!

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

hey maxy i understood and i can't answer (so I didn't ).

Verbs gee glad you are so free of any lasting questions, just open the window let the fresh air in and go dancing across the daisies.


Actiually the thing is I always want to be a reasonable man (yeah okay you can stop laughing now) and hamill is one of those itches in my life. You see why the anger?

What have I got wrong (cos I usually think I've got something wrong if i am angry)?

So I pondered and this is what i've comeup with.

We had a chance

we misread hamill and erred in evaluating him

and maybe we now find ourselves like a rudderless ship.

For what it is worth i agree with some others, i think Hamill and Pagan would have loved each other.

But as Macxy so rightly points out

we'll never know

but gee its an interesting question.

except for verbs who is dancing into the sunset, lucky bugger!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

That's what love does to you.

Pfftt!!!

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill