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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

and as per usual you were wrong on all those reasons

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

Is that from your scrapheap book Warby?

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

You KNOW it is !............

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

sb, I'm another one to apologise to you and say that you were right. I can't remember if I had a go at you at the time, but I do remember reading your posts at the time and thinking how wrong you were. Credit where credit is due.

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

havent read the last 26 pages - but I'm not impressed with Koutas take on this

He came up through the ranks on parkins self empowerment model - which is great and works when you have strong team with leaders and you're routinely winning by 10 goals...

when you're getting routinely thrashed, and have a team lacking long term leaders and full of players making up the numbers then you dont have as much pull - if the coach thinks you need more gym sessions, then I'd say he has a point.

Whatever you say about Pagan, it worth remembering that he was promised the world and inherited a disaster - you cant turn over 30 players without picks, its hard to blood new kids when theres no experienced players to back them up and its probably not especially enticing to work in the environment that was carlton in the last 5 years...
lets remember that when the sh!t hits the fan at the clubs, the players cop it last, its much easier to blame the coach - regardless, and if they're a good player they're forgiven most sins.

Stephen Kernahan, great player and captain that he was, is a hell of a lot more responsible for the last 5 years than Pagan, he was on the match/selection committee that recruited and the board that sunk us into the doldrums..but you can never say bad about him.

I have no time for players who think they are bigger or more important than the club - especially given what some of the disgruntled parties were getting paid - ie if youre getting over $100k to kick a football and the coach tells you to train more and go to the gym, I dont think thats an unreasonable request.

I dont like anyone who airs such things in public - its doesnt achieve anything positive and brings the club back into the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Koutas made more than enough money to live well for the rest of his life, selling his soul wont make much of a difference.

I still appreciate what he did for us on the field, but my respect for him has dropped.

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Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do.