Kouta was right to speak his mind, as Pagan did clearly and obviously have communication and game plan issues, but we would be better to wait until making a final judgement on this sorry chapter in our history.

Often the past is placed into a clearer perspective after we have seen the the future.

The 6 dark years that Carlton has have endured arent nearly as many as other clubs have put up with.

Even during our worst times, we still won 2 pre season cups - takes the edge of the bad times a bit.

For his faults, the future will treat Pagan will more kindly than he is now - because we will improve earlier than most expect.

Although Ratten will be the man in charge, Pagan will have been the one who has have prepared the soil from which Rattens crop will be harvested.

It may be that the intransigence of Saeed Jalil will start a war - and during this time Carlton will triumph.

Pagan on SEN...

- Was speaking at a corporate breakfast, and when he finished up he had 18 messages on his phone
- Found a copy of the paper and ... "Interesting to say the least"
- Hasn't been critical of anyone he's coached and won't start now
- Club said he had to get rid of all these old players
- New Corey wouldn't have painted a good picture of him
- Carlton in a good position and well placed to go forward
- Was probably one of Anthony's best supporters
- Doesn't think he was archaic or not supportive
- 3 of top 4 sides this year were good with the long kicking
- Was hard but fair, was very positive at Carlton, can't believe some of the criticisms
- Will take responsibility and not going to use excuses, will move on, AFL is a tough caper
- He was aware that Kouta and the other players called the meeting
- Didn't confirm or deny the comments in regards to Kouta's 200th game
- Club went through terrible financial times, couldn't be critical of the players
- Didn't talk to Kouta about the meeting he had with the board, he knew that they knew he knew
- Kouta didn't speak to him directly in regards to the points raised with the board
- Winning pre-season cups was good financially
- Kouta entitled to his opinion, one of Carlton's greats, doesn't do any good to get involved in a public slanging match
- Good that Carlton is looking good and he hopes the club does fare well
- Good kids, Stevens return and Judd's recruitment, will have a positive domino effect on our kids
- Future in football ... one foot in front of the other, only need one person to push your barrow, been around the block a few times, blah, blah, blah :Paganisms:
- Did Carlton tank? I don't think they could, players are playing for their careers. Not a chance.

There is no shortage of people who don't hold Koutoufides in high regard on TC, because they look not only at his playing record, but at his time with Carlton in totality. Those who do question him are not naive, but have had legitimate concerns about his motives and actions.

It's true that Koutoufides is entitled to write his memoirs and profit from them if possible. It's also true that he was a very talented player, and that he was better compensated than any other player in the competition for his promise of skills.

But Australian Rules football clubs are different entities than other commercial organisations. There are emotions and attitudes that revolve around a sense of 'team'. In the last decade, much of the team spirit was lost at Carlton, and Koutoufides was representative of that as much as Pagan, Collins and other individuals around the club at the time. Players developed a culture of greed, and combined with the weak and corrupt Elliott administration that caved into excessive demands, disaster ensued.

In reality, Koutoufides' revelations are neither important nor much of a shock. Player discontent was well known, so it's hardly surprising representations were made to the administration. I'd be more astonished if there was only one approach.

Some people have described Koutoufides as being brave for disclosing the meeting taking place. There is nothing courageous about his writings; they're more a case of being indiscreet and opportunistic for money.

What a surprise.

I remember entering year 7 at high school & being put in a class of guys with mostly Italian & Greek heritages. As a kid at first I was really taken back with how my classmates gave such focus and took such pride in themselves, the bragging was always, "I did this...or I did that." There was an air of confidence about the kids in the egocentric way they spoke, once we become friends they we're exceedinly warm and appreciative of your company, but whenit came to self-assessment they never stopped seeing the world through their own eyes.

From the outside, this pretty much how I gauge Kouta. So I sort of stand in the middle of the road between Synbad & Club29's opinions.

He (Kouta) would doubtless counter with questioning the value of writing a footballing memoir if it was predicated on dishonesty. He might further contend that if his book is to close this ugly lamentable chapter of Carlton's history then it should be done with the record being straightened. Posterity will now have the flesh of bitter personal observation to add to the bones of the sad statistical record of Carlton's Pagan years — two wooden spoons and twice second bottom.

It was in August last year that acting on the wishes of the playing group, Koutoufides and the senior players — Lance Whitnall, Matthew Lappin and Nick Stevens — met the Carlton hierarchy on then-president Graham Smorgon's boat and called for the coach to be sacked.

Crap!
This has nothing to do with your heritage or background, inparticularly Italians and Greeks, but your up bringing and it's found in all cultures and societies!