I know this bloke who knows where he can find 72 virgins

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Not sure Kouta said all Carlton's problems are Denis' fault. Did he say that?



He won a B&F, re-invented his game after his knee to be no.1 in the AFL for clearances, represented his players by going to the board and complaining about the coach, and took at least 2 pay cuts.

I think he did pretty well.



What did you expect him to do? Ask to be traded to another club because Denis was still there? Did you expect him to retire? Come on man, the club had bugger all experience so they needed him to go around again, and he clearly loves the Blues and unlike Camporeale would not consider playing at another club.

And it's hard to find good mods these days

I'm not too fussed about Kouta selling his story. Doesn't change my view of him much; great player, nice enough bloke but self interested at times.

Pagan was clearly out of favour with the players and nothing Kouta's written is exactly news. Can't see it really damaging the club in any way considering the amazing number of good news stories of the last 6 months or so.

BUT...

You wouldn't see Andrew McKay doing the same thing.

The player power of 1995 worked because we had a group that included Kernahan, Williams, Silvagni, Dean etc etc etc. They were players who realised that to be successful you had to give 100% all the time. Sad that they only got it together as a group that one year. In retrospect they really should have won at least one of 93 or 94.

Unfortunately the thing that stayed with the club after that year was not the level of professionalism of 1995 but a level of expectation within the player group that they should wield more power than was warranted. Guys like Campo, Lance, Hamill, Beaumont, Allan and co weren't strong willed professionals in the league of the 95 senior players and they certainly weren't great leaders.

Since that 1995 side the only player I've seen at the club who is what I'd consider a true professional (bar some of the new kids such as Murph and Gibbs) is Andrew McKay. Ratten was close but there were whispers about more than one dummy spit when Pagan turned up.

Now McKay may have disliked Pagan immensely but the beauty of Andrew McKay is that no-one here would know what he really felt because he was professional enough to realise that his job was to follow the coaches orders and do his best week in week out.

With Slasher it was always about the club and never about him.

It's a pity I can't say the same about Kouta.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

That's not what I was told.

But hey, opinions are like...

Not hard....they're all on CSC.

I'll give you that one Mrs C

You only have to check out Jesse Smith's myspace page, or think back to feelings expressed by Banaby French and Cory McGrath to see some ex players feelings towards the Dark Lord and his coaching 'tactics and approaches'...

Towards the end, its safe to say that Den Den was ABSOLUTELY LOATHED by players and supporters alike.

Pagan's sacking was the best thing the club did in a long long time, and the only way the club was going to move forward on field. The immediate improvement in performance by the team under Ratts showed that..

I honestly cant believe people on here are heaping sh*t on the great man Kouta for writing the truth in his biography... Why should he keep his mouth shut... Everyone knew that Pagan was an a*sehole... Perhaps you'd all prefer a sugar coated Shitney Spears style book where everything comes up smelling roses.

Whatever people say to try and bag this Club about this is irrelavent as we as a club have moved on from the embaressment of the Pagan era.
Chris Judd in Navy Blue is proof of that !!!

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James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

Hey Donwunderchick, none of my posts were directed at you for what it's worth

It all comes down to perspective. From sources varying in position at Carlton, or how people interpret the minimal information we're given through it's various forms, most here will have formed their own opinions on the real demise of the Carlton Football Club. The fact remains, when any large empire falls from grace, in hinsight anyone can pinpoint events that led to it's demise. I guess it's summed up perfectly well with the Chicken and the Egg scenario. What came first? The fact remains everyone involved with the club must take some responsibility for insipid performances on and off the field. We really were unprofessional in every aspect. I really feel let down as a paid financial member that I continued to support the club and lay my pride on the line week after week, year after year, and take time out of my weekend to support a club that obviously didn't take as much pride in the jumper as I did. No person with even a miniscule of a brain discounted the general consensus that Pagan was confronting dire circumstances whilst attempting to rebuild the club. Yet it seems to be the status quo that he didn't do enough, or that others could've done better...but that goes for anyone involved with the club over this bleakest of periods.

It's just a shame my perception that the players weren't putting in enough - doing all the unsavoury tasks needed to be a champion team throughout the past year has been confirmed by the once acting captain. It makes me feel ashamed to be a part of that. "Nobody said it was easy" but true champions would knuckle down, or make a statement by not being a part of what was going on at the club. And with that I mean ANYBODY involved.

But the sooner the Chicken is plucked and roasted, and the egg is poached (with Hollandaise), the sooner we can all move on. Lest we forget...history repeats.

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

Bingo.

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

Agree with GWS.

Kouta has considered himself to a degree here, but I still think the truth needed to come out (at the very least so that those not in-the-know now know), and I don't think what Kouta has said hurts the club.

That said, if McKay was Skipper I would expect him to go to the board and complain about Pagan.

Let us not forget that it wasn't just Kouta who tried to oust Pagan....... Lance, Lappin & Stevens were involved also.

SEN and the HUN have pretty much given Kouta all the credit on that one!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Ryan, the article says "Koutoufides called a meeting with then president Graham Smorgon, chief executive Michael Malouf and board member Stephen Kernahan to oust Pagan".

oxymoron

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

My take on all this is;
The Carlton Football Club has been the most incompetently administered business I have seen in the period 2000 to 2006.
From the top to the bottom there has been disgraceful, self serving behaviour.
There have been lies and deceit. Nothing can be achieved by dragging up this abysmal saga. Everyone involved should be ashamed. I want my wasted emotions back.
This whole fiasco is embarrassing. Pagan was completely wrong for the club a desperate appointment by a dying president. The players were disloyal from the beginning because of their respect for Brittain , and no doubt the reference from McKernan. The administration knew all this and did nothing. And people tell me Pratt is a crook. OMG. He would not have tolerated this crap.

It is now over. Let’s move on. Let’s close this distasteful chapter in our proud history. Let’s only look back at it to ensure it never ever happens again.
We need an even mix of dignity and arrogance. We have that now.
We have the talent both on and off the field.
Focus on the future. Be proud to go and barrack.
Let’s put the Scum, the Filth and Ninthmond back where they belong.
Number 17 HERE WE COME

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"I'll tell you what I didn't do;
I never injected anyone."
AD 3/3/14

No shit!

The Article, and the entire Herald Sun for that matter say alot of things!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

JUDD

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

I know that young man [or woman], but as someone who has been on the site for a bit, it pays to be respectful of others people's opinions, even if you do think they are flowered!

I remember getting a clip behind the ears by GWS when I first posted.

TC is a place where you can chat about the one thing that unites us.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.