A lot of things that are being said in public by club officials are not necessarily what they mean. A lot of this stuff is about creating uncertainty and to keep the opposition guessing.

Exatly wooj - not sure why everyone is overreacting to what Ratts and Swann have said.

Everything that is said at this time of the year is flowering BS.

But I will say after seeing West Coast on Friday night, that Judd is not a player that I would entertain as he is currently playing.

His groins must be shot to pieces with the way the club has been playing him.

Whilst I know this is Finals time, not sure of this is in the best interest of their marquee player or if they are trying to extract every ounce of class from him before he decides he wants to come back to Melbourne.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Carlton and Pagan were roundly criticised on this board for doing exacty the same thing with Fevola, when he was operated on the doctor said he had the worst groin injury he had ever seen.

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Perception is a funny thing in football..
Just over 2 months ago Judd was the best footballer in the known universe and Brownlow Medal favourite.
Now he is all of a sudden "over the hill and his second half of his career wont be as good as his first??"


Judd would bring more to this footy club then on field stardom- he would bring leadership and insight from one of the best football teams in the country over the past few seasons, as well as a fari amount of marketability and all of the other intangibles.

I would love to keep the picks of course I would.. But I really think ensing up with Kruezer pick 20 and a readymade superstar in Judd from this off season is a fairly solid result.

Not questioning what Carlton did with Fev as I think it not only could have exaceberated an already bad injury but it did nothing for Fev in the eyes of supporters, who thought he wasn't trying.

With Judd's explosive pace, it's quite obvious to see that he is struggling and handballing off to Hurn on 2 seperate occassions on Friday night when lining up, tells me that he is in serious pain.

I just think that the Eagles are being negligent in playing someone of his calibre who clearly is playing at 40% of his capacity.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

if we got Judd and Brown with picks 1 & 3 and didnt take it - i would never follow the club again.

i dont disagree with your sentiments Synbad but lets not get crazy

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

No to Judd...no more franchise players who bankrupt the club. Its Kouta revisited and we will have learned nothing.....Hawthorn has shown that steady recruitment of good quality young kids and good junior development can get you playing finals footy.
I wouldnt be trading picks or Fev........I also think a lot of posters are underestimating what West Coast would want in terms of a trade and how other clubs would drive the price up...

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- Conor Gillen

Synners long time no speak! I was at the Hawks Crows game (Son did Auskick). Roughead & Buddy were impressive however.............. Craig lost this game i thought. Massie was too short & slow for Buddy & Roughie too fast for Ruttens. Bock should have been utilized on one of these & also McGregor. BTW who was the Crow defender that kicked it out on the full losing possession for Hawks to mount that last forward winning thrust? (Hawk supporters are delirious and becoming extremely arrogant)

I'm concerned we may do a Richmond this year ie a Richard Lounder and a Tambling! You need to re-assure me big man!

Here's a few quotes from Swann re trading picks...

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 62,00.html

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Spot on, picks 1 & 3 are unknown quantities - not only do we need talent but we crave leadership and players with experience.

Just look at the top 5 in our B & F - our list is still very ordinary

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I'm 100% with SYnbad on this one. If we go back to the dark old ways of the 90s I'll be ready to give it away. Where the hell did Judd come from anyway....that's right #3 pick in the draft. If only the Eagles had been smart enough to trade that away. What about Hodge - #1 pick in the same draft - good trade Dockers, must have got at least 30 mediocire games out of Trent Croad.

It's about time we actually showed we understood the draft and the AFL. It is no longer the 80s. If you want elite talent, draft it. And as for buying in leaders maybe it will work, but more often you will get a mercenary who is carrying injuries and is finished in 5 years as opposed to a 200 gamer. Or you might be really lucky and get Aaron Hamill, great leader pity he gets half the salary cap and doesn't actually play any games.

If we have done a good drafting job with all our high picks then we will certainly be successful. If not, then the answer is not to give a away draft picks but to get our drafting right. We have dominated top draft picks for 3 years, we will have 12 players on our list who are top 20, 3x#1, a #2, a #3, a #4. You would have to try really hard not to have a truckload of elite talent with that lot.

Does no-one remember Mick Mansfield (Geelong got Chapman with the pick we gave them), Devonport (The pick we gave up for him was used on BArry Hall), O'Reilly, McKErnan, Mick McGuane....

One really good thing Smorgon did was rule out throwing away high draft picks. I really hope the Blues aren't stupid enough to go down that track. We've had the pain, now lets aim to be elite and not just a bit better, and let's not be gutless and go after talented mercenaries under injury clouds, instead of recruiting and developing our own talent.

REally good players hardly ever change clubs, there's no way Jon Brown will ever leave the Lions, and I don't reckon Judd's going anywhere either. If you trade you usually get talented, wayward players who are trouble, mercenaries, or great players who are chronically injured. And whoever you get will have been drafted by the club you are trading with.

I don't think people are talking about trading picks for hacks but for bonafide superstars - huge difference between Mansfield and Judd - what a pathetic comparison

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Did I compare Judd to Mansfield KK? Or did I highlight the way we have gone about recruiting from other clubs? And how on earth did WCE get hold of Judd, surely they didn't draft him, who would have thought you could actually draft elite talent rather than wait until that talent can barely walk and will be paid half your salary cap before trading away picks for him.

The whole Judd / Brown for #1 and #3 is pointless anyway. Neither of them will move. Why on earth would either of them come to CArlton. We are a rabble on the field and the Eagles are miles ahead of us off the field

agree that this discussion is purely hypothetical - guess I was trying to highlight exceptions to the rule. I do worry about our lack of leadership though - our list is still quite ordinary and I'm not expecting much from next season.

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I'm all for keeping 1 & 3 but not fussed that Swann is saying you never say never. I don't want to see us trade away picks for players half-way through their careers but there may be circumstances where it's worth considering trading pick 1.

If Richmond became so obsessed with Kreuzer that they came to us and offered pick 2 and pick 7 for pick 1 would you take it?

That would get us Cotchin, Morton and another midfielder at 7.

If not 2 and 7 what about 2 and 6, or 2 and 5.

2 & 4 anyone?

I haven't really seen any of the likely top picks play other than a few snippets of tape so I'm not qualified to judge them but is 1 and 3 really better than 2, 3 & 4 in this draft?

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Turkish Proverb

GWS I have been told by someone who works in recruitment for an opposition club that this is the sort of draft where you can get decent players between 5-10, it's a bit like Hurn etc going outside 10 in 2005. So I'd probably take 2 and 7 for 1. A player like Masten might go at 7 and he is pretty highly rated from what I have been told. McEvoy also shapes as a decent ruck prospect and he might be around then. There's about 7-8 names being spoken of this year :

Kreuzer
Cotchin
Morton
Masten
Rioli
McEvoy
Palmer

Well said.



Yes, we do lack leadership. But who would have thought Simpson would have done such a cracking job in his few weeks as stand-in Captain? Our list is young and still developing. So it is no surprise we have no superstars in our B&F's top 5. Come back and judge our list, even as is, in 2 or 3 years from now. Geelong's list looked a bit lacking this time last year too.

Of course, I'm not saying our list is as good, or even close to Geelong's, I believe gerry has explained perfectly well the main reasons for our deficiencies, and that is the failure to utilise the draft properly until the last few years.

Let's rebuild our list properly. Sure, a Judd type player would be very handy for any team in the competition. But let's not chase him too hard, let's not throw everything and the kitchen sink to get him, and that includes #1 and #3. With or without Judd we're still a good 3 years away (or more) from our list being at it's theoretical peak. Let's build a list that is our own and wants to live, breathe and WIN together.

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perhaps we're tanking the tanking?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

..Judd, sans any injuries and at his peak is still not worth picks 1 & 3.. ..even just pick 1 isn't worth it.. ..Judd is great, but we need a ruckman, and we need one desparately.. ..we have ruck prospects on our list, but they're prospects and projects.. ..after that, we need a defender.. ..sure another mid would be great, but lets address the gaping holes before we go for the icing on the cake.. ..otherwise, we have the icing and only the sponge.. ..but we ain't got no cake..

..we need to add to our list.. ..by trading fev, or giving draft picks for players we're not advancing our list at all.. ..we'd still have the same number of good players.. ..as for on-field leadership.. ..well, we drafted murphy and gibbs for their skill and leadership quality..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

I think we should trade our list for Geelong's. (but keep our picks)

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!