I'm not overly interested in getting Judd either, only because we would have to give away too much. Unless it was just a straight swap for Fev, then I would do it. But it won't be. They would want pick 3 or pick 1 and Fev, and I don't want to give them our picks. We absolutely can not be tempted to give away our two early picks.

this is where I think you are wrong, if Judd wanted to leave the Eagles would have to take what they could - they would not be in the position to bargain with us

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Football is changing where sides no longer rely on a key forward. Relying on a key forward means a team is too predictable.

Look at Sydney last weekend without Barry Hall. Other players stepped up and the game plan changes meaning the opposition have no idea about your forward structure. Hawthorn didn't know where the Swans were going when they moved forward.

West Coast, North, Geelong and Port are the future models we need to follow.

St.Kilda rely on the G-Train and Essendon* rely on Lloyd and none of these teams made the finals.

Hard running midfielders who can win contests and stoppages and move the ball in the forward line quickly is the key. If we have a key forward then the opposition will know where we are going to put the ball therefore the ball rebounds back just as quick.

I wonder if we will ever see a hundred goals kicked in one season again.

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It is not as bad as you are lead to believe.......it is %$#^& worse!!!

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_goal_kickers?year=2007&sort=accuracy&type=T

Of the players who have kicked 30 or more, Fisher is ranked 4th in the league for accuracy. Whether he can kick long or not, he is marking in the perfect areas to take good percentage shots.

Agreed.

Besides trading Fev for Judd would swapping one dodgy groin for another. And, no, that's not a euphemism.

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TalkingCarlton Posting Rules

It's not just about getting Judd.
It's about making a statement within the AFL and within our playing list!
Our kids will grow with a JUDD coming, our sponsers will triple and our membership will hit 40+ in 2008.
The bigger picture people, the bigger picture.
We are finally in a position to make a statement and deliver the knock out blow .... I HOPE WE DELIVER IT.

You say we cant kick enough goals to win a game without fev , but really with fev we have won 8 games in 2 years, that isnt a great sign.

im not totally for or against trading fev but if we can get Judd as part of this we need to do it. Judd is a class above any player in the league. He is younger than fev aswell.

I'm not overly interested in getting Judd either, only because we would have to give away too much. Unless it was just a straight swap for Fev, then I would do it. But it won't be. They would want pick 3 or pick 1 and Fev, and I don't want to give them our picks. We absolutely can not be tempted to give away our two early picks.[/quote]

I was talking with some mates today about this fact and i posed the question of instead of trading fev directly for judd why not get another club involved. something along these lines.

Fev to the dogs for their first pick (5) and a player like Giancircusa/hahn (realistically they wouldnt trade anyone in the class of Griffen, Cooney, Gilbee etc)

Trade our first pick (3) and the pick 5 from the dogs for Judd.

Dogs lose Gia/Hahn & pick 5, Gain Fev

We Lose Fev & Pick 3, Gain Judd & Gia/Hahn

West coast lose Judd, Gain pick 3 and 5

I'm still waiting for an answer to this question...

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

KK you honestly think that Judd is that disallusioned with his club that he would walk out on them? Hardly. He is their captain and a great clubman. He will only leave if he feels that his existing club was given a fair deal. And a fair deal would require us losing too much. We don't need Judd to be a force in 3 years time. With a little patience and professional club management we will be fine without him.

Although again, swapping Fev for Judd I'm sold.

In KK's defence, he did say "if Judd wanted to leave the Eagles". This is taking the emotional side out of it. So his statement isn't wrong. If Judd wanted to leave, the Eagles would not be in a position to negotiate. They either take what is offered, or risk Judd walking for nothing.

HOWEVER, whether Judd is going to walk away from the Eagles and leave them with nothing, is another question. I'm with you though Nytdog, I don't think he would either.

I admit that Fisher used to be a bad kick but as I have said before on this sight, his kicking has improved dramatically over the last year.

..listen, games have changed drastically from the days of the big power forwards being the main/sole goalkickers i agree, but the game hasn't changed too much since the lions won their 3 and lynch and brown played significant roles up forward.. ..the eagles, as good as their goal kicking mids are, lost against the swans by under a goal and they had dropped q-lynch for that GF, the following year they played him and won by under a goal.. ..so, superficially you can say that with the best midfield of the comp, they still needed their power FF to get them their victory..

..sure, the opposition knows that a power FF will attract plenty of the ball, but they will always be a part of the game.. ..and if anything, with the new interpretations of the hands in the back rule favouring forwards, we may slowly see a return of the contested mark vs the mainstay of leading forwards.. ..though who knows how long that particular rule will last in it's current form..

..as for teams like the lions and saints.. ..the saints under a new coach had to learn a new gameplan and lost games early in the season b/c of this, otherwise it's argueable that they'd have made it this year, ditto the lions if bradshaw didn't go down with an injury.. ..plus, the lions just missed out on the finals and thats will the coleman medalist..

..yeah you can say we won only 8 games over 2 years with Fev, but thats not b/c he's crap.. ..it's b/c our team has been crap, and our coach even worse until he got the boot.. ..power forwards are here to stay, especially the big kickers.. ..and the fev is one of the best.. ..with a better midfield, the ball will be moved forward faster and with better accuracy/efficiency.. ..sure, the opposition knows there's a good chance it may go to fev but with a strong midfield there's sweet F.A they can do about it.. ..or, conversely a second backman can leave his man to cover fev but thats just leaving another forward free.. ..you can't have enough quality players on the field.. ..we've had to be fev-centric cos our midfield delivery has been shizen and fev's had little support up forward in prev years.. ..fisher's been outstanding this year we all agree, but thats still 2 outta 6 forwards really delivering consistently all year long..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

You've summed up my feelings exactly nytdog.

Picks 1 and 3 are off the table.

And there's no way known Judd would leave the Eagles without a trade.

kennedy-3
hampson-3
fisher-3
simpson-2
betts-2
kreuzer-1
gibbs-1
murphy-1
stevens-1


there's 17 right there.

not taking into account the bags that JK will kick

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice

What about Kosi? stick him up forward and let Hammer, Kreuzer, Aisake et al handle the ruck work.

He's far better at this point than Lance, and we'd have a fair show at getting him over the trade period.

Stupid comment, Fisher gets all his marks 20metres out

If you watch fev hes always 50m out or on 35 degree angle on boundary cos he cant get proper disposal down the corridor and gets double n triple teamed

You dont see fisher doubled teamed once do u

Fev was double teamed the whole time against Saints and kicked 5 goals

That is a champion, you dont trade that.

No thanks.

We'd have a stronger player if bluehammer fashioned a CHF out of chalk.

Kosi = The AFL's own Quentin.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I don't wanna trade Fev. We can't. I'm not a fan of players changing clubs. He's got a lot of bad points but he's one of the reasons I love the club.

Also I agree that if Judd wanted to leave, we would be able to get him for far less than he's worth. Remember, we got Stevens with 2nd pick in the pre-season draft and Port got squat. I think WC will make sure they get at least something and won't risk being in the same position as port

Judd's groin is in such a state that he could barely lift his legs the other night...he walked off and apparently shook his head as if to say 'i cant take anymore' i cant believe people (who want whitnall gone for his injuries) want to get Judd!...sure he's in the best 2 players in the league. But Fevola is a 100+ goalkicker, they dont grow on trees, midfields of B+ calibur can feed to great full forwards and make a club successful, look at the Swans with Hall, and The Pies to Rocca/Cloke...we have NO need for Judd, sure he's amongst the best i've seen but no matter the offer, Fevola shouldn't be on the table for trade.

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Cuck Follingwood