Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Sun May 11, 2025 9:50 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 6:35 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10376
Location: Coburg
you seriouslythink the players got together and said 'hey listen fella's we're not going to follow DP's plan, we're going to do this?'

Denis hads to draft some mature bodies or this bottoming out could have taken 20 years! Oh and no club, or maybe one on the Gold Coast.

They are not all hacks, it ius just that we need some high class players to compliment the work horses.

You';re talking about drafting all kids, and most picks higher than what 60?

Come on, we'd be tossing players out by the dozen year after year.

Bryan came about because we know we need a ruckman to help French so Denis punted on Bryan (and Batson by the way) because we lost Knobel to Richmond.

as for the no one was saying anything, well I was, as far back and 1998 I was saying what kids have we got? In 1999 I said it was a shit we made it that far, we should have been tossed out after being slaughtered in the first final - then maybe a lot of this would not have happened - although knowing JE it would have!

Now there were voices of dissent but JE was a master of slamming doors on any dissent. it took an apocalyptic nightmare before enough voices screamed loud enough to bring the house of cards down - but that's still all they were, shitty cards!

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 6:58 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 3768
Quote:
Beaumont, Beaumont, Beaumont...give me Beaumont!


Even the hawks don't want him and can't make their side.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:09 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 pm
Posts: 2220
I just think that our problem is a compound one rather than a simple one.

In general, simple problems are easy to fix, but compound problems are much harder.

When you have compound problems, the most common reaction of people who debate how to fix it is to focus on one of the causes at the expense of the other equally valid causes.

The elements of our compound problem are (in no particular order) :

Poor recruiting in late 90's

Ageing List.

Coaching culture - player empowerment. - doesnt work when you need to do a complete rebuild.

Coaching style - firstly Wayne Brittans style and now for different reasons - Pagan. - although I think we can more further forward with Pagan than with others.

Off Field Issues - The Elliot factor and his management of the club, especially financial issues.

The Draft Penalties.

Being forced, because of draft penalties to pick up 'High risk' retread players. - continuing on with a list of player empowerment rebels would have been even worse though.

Having problems with player/ age and mix - as well as a dearth of KPP's and club Leaders.

The sponsorship issue - from being a club people wont want to watch.

The ground location issue. Optus / TD / MCG etc etc...

There areprobably more here, but Ive picked out most of them I think.

Its absolutely useless trying to say that this problem was the real cause or one problem is a cause while another isnt.

Truth of the matter is that all elements are equally important.

Another truth is that the solution to this multi faceted problem will involve the temporary exacerbation of some problem areas - its a matter of finding the way through that is quickest with the smallest possible damage to the club.

For example - the quickest and least riskiest way of rebuilding the list is with low picks in the draft system. but the flipside to this is that sponsors wont find us attractive while we are down. - but you pick the low finish because although painful it is the quickest way forward to a point where sponsors will like us again

so its easy arguing over a complex problem, but we all need to bear in mind that there are many elements to our current plight. It really a set of problems which are interdependant to a large degree - like a real life rubiks cube....

I for one am optimistic - I happen to think that things are never quite as bad as they might first seem. And this will be shown to be the case in our 2005 situation.

Dont be at all surprised if there are some major shocks to come. I think that there will be, Our rather one dimensional media will see this as a major setback, but I wont. Setbacks will be counterbalanced by quite a few lucky breaks. Some of these breaks will be critical...

Its going to be a white knuckle ride, but just sit down and hang on and we will get through it.

Yes, there will be luck along the way and we might even get through it quicker than the doomsters are saying we will - (and just between you and me, my money actually is on this outcome.)

_________________
My Blue Heaven


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:22 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:23 am
Posts: 48682
Location: Canberra
SurreyBlue wrote:
Heavs wrote:
So did it just go missing at West Coast the year they finished second last three years back? What abuot Port this year?

Jeez you talk some shit Surrey. You poke holes and find problems and post your little emoticons all over the shop but aren't prepared to find a solution to the problem. Whenever anyone suggest a solution you post up your little 'sad' or 'embarrased' emoticon along with some dribble about how it was never like that in the old days.

If you think there is a problem with the club at the moment then join the queue. We are playing like shit. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands, going on your post count on here and bigfooty. Why not invest some of that time in the betterment of the club instead of running down other people who are trying to do just that ....


Interesting. I can see Port, WestCoast and the like talking about picks and the like can't you? I saw Mark Williams come out and say that he has ageing list and maybe needs now to rebuild by finishing at the bottom, didn't you? :roll:

As for joining the club, I don't need to be told "what to say and not to say" everyday of my life, thanks but no thanks. Talked to Diesal lately? He might have something of interest for you to hear, but then again, no need right, he isn't part of the "club". :evil:

As for going the man, I'll mark you down as just another imbicile who plays the man to get his argument across. God knows there growing in numbers.

Ps. Your post count here, is greater than mine. :?


I think you'll find Heavs was attacking what you say and how you say it, not who is saying it.

_________________
Click here to follow TalkingCarlton on twitter
TalkingCarlton Posting Rules


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:54 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:12 pm
Posts: 1291
Location: Sydney
Sydney Blue wrote:
Bluebernz - I will agree with you that the previous administration left Pagan with a terrible list . They kept topping up the list in hope of maybe snatching a flag. With the exception of Kouta and whitnal I cant think of one player who started young and developed through the club. But none of us complained when we were playing finals every year. Pagan came to the club in 2003 with the knowledge that 8 players were returning off injury and the possibility of earlier draft picks but the players revolted they didn't like him and the draft picks were taken away. So he decided to clean them out (Fair enough). But knowing he had a rebuilding job in front of him why did he then go out and draft recycled hacks . It is worse than what the previous administration had done in trying to top up. I would have rathered that he took a chance on a young bloke than pick up some of the rubbish we have at the moment. Even this year Pagan thought we were better than what we are and instead of using his picks for youth he got Chambers and Longmuir and even Bryan. Once again trying to top up the list. He has got it wrong on several occassions and he will get it wrong again.


Sydney, I won't go into the reasons why Denis drafted re-treads. They've been covered by old55 and dannyboy.

Quote:
Did you notice the change in our game on the weekend - they flooded back and slowed the game down. This should have been done at the 10 minute mark of the Richmond game. But I am wondering was the change in the gameplan Pagans idea or was it a result of the players meeting during the week.


I don't think the players have that much power and authority that they can make the decision to completely change the game plan and flood against Denis' wishes. I would assume that the meeting was held to lift morale and perhaps make a commitment to work harder for each other. Without seeing the stats, it appeared from watching the game that our tackling and 1 percenters improved compared to the previous 3 matches.

The decision to flood would've come from Denis. Having been flogged in our last 3 matches, DP adopted the flood to minimise any further damage and perhaps try to restore some shattered confidences given the results over the past month.

You ask why didn't he do this against Richmond? Because flooding is a Band-Aid solution only. You're just papering over the cracks. No team has
ever won the premiership flooding. Pagan wants the players to learn a game plan that he knows has proven the test of time during September. For this reason, the flooding tactic will not be a permanent fixture in our game plan for the rest of 2005. DP will only resort to it under extenuating circumstances - such as when you've come off thrashings 3 weeks in a row.

Quote:
Just as Wayne Carey said about Lance last week that the game is slowly passing him by , I think sadly the same thing is happening to Denis.


Well we'll have to disagree on this point. As far as I'm concerned, give Denis a decent side first before you make the call that the game has passed him by. Our current list has more holes than you can poke a stick at. You can't polish a turd as they say. I bet any of the current AFL coaches would struggle with this list as well.

_________________
When Dick became President, it was as if everyone at Carlton came out of the hailstorm and into the sunshine - Stephen Kernahan

YARRAN!!





.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 8:59 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores
you're all right.

We should start playing the 10 champions we've been hiding in the reserves.

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: snakehips, TBWKTM and 97 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group