The players at the Carlton footy club are being let off too lightly. If any of you clowns tells me that the reason we have been losing so much and so badly is Pagan then you truly are clowns.

Now i have issues with some of his selections for gameday and positional changes thats fine. BUT why isnt anyone canning the players, they are the ones that run out on the field, they are the ones that are meant to get the job done out there.

If its true that the players lost respect for Pagan and didnt want to play for him then you know what... the players are weak and will do the same when we get a new coach. What sort of rubbish is this dont respect the coach. To win and succeed you need to stick together and listen to your leader who is the coach... if you dont like who the coach is then f off. If these hacks think that our new coach is going to go easy on them then get ready for another bunch of sooky players next season.

Seriously the players need to have a good look at themselves. They are to blame for our poor win/loss record... not Pagan.

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Matty Kruzer you star!

Hopefully Voss will come in and set the place right. I agree, the players have been babied for too long. All those critics of Pagan's who said he was too hard on the poor little petals were wrong. If anything he should have been harder and tougher although this group is no-weher near as tough as the North of the 90s.

The Pagan of the 90s is what we need for the 00s and 10s.

Voss, as a a recent player who came back from one of the worst injuries in the game to captain 3 flags, NS medal and Brownlow should set the tone and seperate the men from the boys.

I get you point, but it's hard to rubbish a player for not following the game plan when we can't see what the game plan is!

We go wide to the wings and when players get the ball that stop like rabbits in the headlights because they don't appear to know what they are supposed to do. We are a very poorly drilled team and you can't criticize players failing to follow a plan that doesn't exist.

Players like Ackland, Russel, Scotland, Fev and a few others have all copped some bastings from supporters for loack of effort and poor performances so I you intentions are a little misguided. After all if the design of a building is fundamentally wrong who do you blame when it falls down? The Architect or the builders?

You cant blame the young players.....they have had no direction and just been left to find their own way.
Pagan recruited the likes of Ackland, Saddington, Mclaren etc and only has himself to blame......

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

The players have to take some responsibility. Not the young players, the "senior" group who have shown no leadership or committment.

Now that Pagan is gone, there is nowhere to hide. There is no other scapegoat. It was very easy for players to say "I hate the coach, he's shit , so I'm not going to try". They even got support from carlton fans as evidenced on these pages. Well, the party is over. Lucky we've got Swann and Icke around. They know who the weak links are and they will be disposed of.

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T E A M

Contrary to the thoughts of some - most will come to the realization that our list is not that good.

Over the past 5 years they have hid under numerous excuses such as blaming poor list management (partly true), inept coach (partly true).

Now they have a chance to put their cards on the table over the next 6 weeks to show why they should be retained or moved on.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Every player should take ownership of this problem -yes the coach was a contributor but not the only reason - to be 29 points behind at half time and lose by 117 points -means all the players young and old should take some responsibility as to a dismal performance -on the back of a loss to Hawthorn by 100 and freo by 77
This from a side 5 weeks prior had beaten WB and Port Adelaide in consecutive games -port and dogs might not have been at their best in those games but still indicates how diabolical those performances recently have been

Rodney Eade lost some players once and Paul Roos found those same players. Even Bozo knows what happened next.

Love him or hate him, it must be said Pagan had an amazing ability to read the group. He said before the Dogs game that they were in danger of copping a flogging. They came out and responded, maybe in spite of those comments. It was only a matter of days before we saw what he talked about.

There's no doubt he couldn't continue, the group had lost each other and themselves. Losing continuously can't be good no matter how determined the facade.

Hopefully Ratten tells the players he'll be looking for team efforts and not individuals. We don't want to see one player kick 6 or 8, or gather 38 possies. We want shepherds, talking and backing up and commitment.

All the things that we've been missing since June. It's not that hard, 2 hours a week for 6 weeks.

No Pagan had an amazing ability of getting the players to drop their pants and bend over.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

the players certinly have to take some responsibility, you don't need to like the coach to give 100% for your club and teammates.

there is so much talk of pagan's gameplan or lack of gameplan, but our players are struggling to execute the basic skills of football, which in turn make the coaches game plan look bad/non existent.

if you can't spot up a target 20 metyers away or kick a goal from a set shot 35 meters out, not gameplan is going to work.

So we just so happened to recruit the dumbest and most unskilled footballers in history all at the same time?

Pagan said it himself, individually we are improving but as a team we're not.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

are our players current football skills acceptable to perform at the highest level?

Players being let off?

Jesus.................i reckon it's anything BUT.

The players have copped their fair share of crap for close to 5 years now. From the media, the Supporters, EVEN THEIR OWN COACH AND CLUB.

People who are supposed to be running this club come out and call them "Z GRADE" players.

Pagan, CONSTANTLY makes comment that he'd be winning games with a Brown, or Riewoldt or Judd, Or whoever the hell else!

The confidence of these players are shot to shit and all they need is some reasurance, which Pagan FAILED..............on NUMEROUS OCCASIONS to deliver!

The players have copped the blame also. For many many years. Pagan, mainly because of his previous records, has largly escaped criticism (except from supporters).

He has been found out! As will dumb shits like Carey, who clearly think with other organs EXCEPT their brain.

YES - We need a few more quality players.
NO - We don't have the best list in the AFL.

But tell me this? Do you honestly believe that our list isn't as good, better or similar to those of North Melbourne's, Brisbanes and Essendons?

Whilst the players do need to take some of the blame, i believe they have bared the brunt of the it for too long.....................it was time Pagan was let go because he could clearly do no more.................

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Who cares?
Its over.

Look to the future.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

The Paganites, they've got sour grapes.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Yeah we do want a player kicking 6 or 8 goals a game. But everyone else chips in
Yes we do want players to get 38 possessions a game. Every good team has a player or two nearly getting 30 posses a game.

Gee, if we get judd we will have to bench him for getting the ball too much

But seriously, u need the shephards, hard tackling and committment etc

In memorie of Pagan 'Geeee'

Exactly what the great man Archer said,a lot of sooks,you hear all these rumors on here that players are going to quit if Denis was coach next year,this and that proves to me the players who actually feel this way are weak or blame their performance on other things any player who actually gives up because they haven't got their way shouldn't be in the club.

I just hope Voss or whoever takes charge has patience because if you thought Pagan was tough on the players,my crystal ball tells me Voss will be tougher and more angry if any sooks complain or blames their performance because he doesn't like his boss/Coach.

This guys were pre season draft picks that were chosen by pagan so he could play them now until the kids playing now had 2 or 3 years experience.
It would be great to have the team fill with 18-22 year old players but you would get flogged each week with all the kids playing at the same time,only Ackland deal was a mistake, Mclaren didn't do much but was a back up and Saddington to help with the kids in the backline for a few years.