Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Mon Jun 30, 2025 9:37 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:34 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 33618
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/b ... 38562.html

Quote:
The patchwork quilt of senior people that has served the club in recent years has been a disaster.

Quote:
Seeing Carlton play with some spirit is the best that this old Bluebagger can hope for.

Quote:
Regardless of who the Blues go for, the senior man is only part of the answer. Get rid of the highly paid, uncommitted prima donnas.

Get the best development coaches. Get the best recruiters. Get the best facilities and fitness tracking devices. Blues fans will continue to be patient, provided they see spirit, and everyone pulling in the same direction.


Not many times have I agreed with Wallsy in recent times, as he's given the sense repeatedly that he's losing his marbles. But I agree with everything he's said here (well, 50/50 on the fev-trade thing).

It also cannot be forgotten what happened in 1989, and how that mirrors Pagan's demise, so the man talks from experience.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:00 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24652
Location: Kaloyasena
Wallsy the time for this article was at the start of this season not 6 rounds from the end of it. :wink:

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Post Pagan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:11 pm 
Offline
Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:45 pm
Posts: 36
Firstly, I would like to thank Denis Pagan for his commitment and efforts over the last 4.5 years. I'm not going to bother adding any more commentary enough has been said already - I think he did the absolute best he could.

Secondly, I'd like to look at the positives to come out of the last couple of years. It's important to reflect on the B&F only a few years ago which was dominated by senior experienced players. Both last year and this year things have changed.

The positives to come out of this year are that players such as Walker, Murphy, Simpson, Fisher, Waite, Carrazzo, O'Hailpin who have all gotten better and are probably leading the B&F count this year. This is very much a positive for the club.

Players perhaps we are still not convinced about such as Russell, Kennedy, Blackwell, Bentick, Betts managed to have more game time which can only benefit them or help the club determine their worth over the long term. For some of these players it has probably been frustrating i.e.

Russell - Mostly playing as a run with player/been in and out of the side and has not been capable of racking up too many possesions.

Kennedy - Probably not being settled in one general position has not helped but was given plenty of opportuinity early in the season. His development has been somewhat frustrating this season. Has his pinch hitting in the ruck helped him?

Bentick - Great at getting the ball out and tackling but is simply not damaging as a midfielder. Does he enough positives to be around long term????

Blackwell - Much like Bentick except was in and out the side. With both he and Bentick we would have hoped that they would have taken their opportunities a little better like Carrazzo. For both of them though there is still time.

Betts - Needs to become more consistent and develop those midfield capabilities over the next couple of years. Dissapointing to lose him through injury midway through the year.

The young Brigade - Gibbs, Anderson, Grigg, Hartlett, Bower, all got game time this year. The real positives have been Gibbs and Ando for first year players.

The Possibles - Scotland, Houlihan, Whitnell, Fevola - It can be said of all these players that they had up and down seasons. Scotland and Houlihan have been fairly consistent while I think Fev has copped a lot of unecessary flak this year. We have to remember for a large part of the season he played as a decoy, has still managed to kick 40 goals but we have had Fisher, Waite and other players step up to share the load. The biggest disspointment from these fellows has been their percieved leadership both on and off the field. (Scotland, Whitnell, Fev!!!!)

Golden Oldies - While they have been great servants of the club both Kouta and lappin should retire at years end. Kouta has been great for a long time and many times this year he stepped up but both I would argue have lacked leadership.

The dissapointments - Stevens, Cloke, Ackland, McLaren, Saddington.
Stevens we all know was having a ripper year while Cloke showed glimpses before they got injured. For the other other 3, each of their on field positions was there to be taken and none of them have been able to stand up and grasp them.

Making Up the Numbers - Wiggins, Bannister, Teague - While one may argue that both Bannister and Wiggo have played some of their best footy for the club this year each of these players have had ample opportunity to cement a spot in the side and haven't.

Pups - Apart from those already mentioned we have Benjamin. Austin, Hampson, Raso, Edwards, Jackson, Young, Flint, Jacobs, Jamieson, Aisake. This year alone one can be happy with the development of players such as Austin, Jamieson and Aisake at least. For some it is to early to tell particularly Hampson and Jacobs as ruckman but each of these players at least shows plenty of endeavour.

The only player I haven't mentioned is Thornton and one can argue that he has been as consistent as one can be with the ball coming down back as much as it has. I would hope that he will eventually become a more agressive and attacking defending with some support.

For me personally I have been generally happy with the development and improvement of some of our youngsters despite what people think about our year. For those who go to the footy each week you will now that Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Fisher O'Hailpin, Waite and Carrazzo while not perfect have really stepped up this year. The great disppointment for me has been the percieved lack of on field leadership amongst Whitnell, Kouta, Lappin, Houla, Scotland, Fev and even Thornton who has now played 100 games. Having Stevens go down did not help however going forward I think we haver a great base to work from. While I have suggested that a lack of leadership has been a problem it will only get worse with Kouta and lappo likely to retire at years end while some of the other senior players careers are not guaranteed.

So post Pagan perhaps the only certainities are these:


FB: Thornton S. O'Hailpin
NB: Scotland Waite
CE: Simpson Murphy Walker
HF: Fisher Gibbs
FF: Fev
RU: Stevens Carrazzo

Or Are They???

The others:

Russell
Kennedy
Bentick
Whitnell
McLaren
Ackland (only due to his current contract)
Blackwell
Grigg
Bower
Betts
Benjamin
Austin
Hampson
Hartlett
Anderson
Cloke
Houlihan
Raso
Edwards
Jackson
Jacobs
Jamieson
Young
Flint
Aisake

(I have highlighted above in red players who could be traded or at risk of being delisted) I would have added a couple of mor but think perhaps they need additional time.

Those expected to go:

Saddington
Lappin (Retire)
Teague
Bannister
Wiggins
Kouta (Retire)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:24 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:31 pm
Posts: 24457
Location: Heartbroken
Pagan

_________________
Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:04 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 1:26 am
Posts: 8026
Location: Melbourne
I think Wallsy omiited to add

"a backline, a ruck division and pacy midfield" to that headline.

_________________
Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Post Pagan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:31 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 8:24 pm
Posts: 2821
Location: In The Boot Of Brendan Fevola Car
SCARA wrote:
Firstly, I would like to thank Denis Pagan for his commitment and efforts over the last 4.5 years. I'm not going to bother adding any more commentary enough has been said already - I think he did the absolute best he could.

Secondly, I'd like to look at the positives to come out of the last couple of years. It's important to reflect on the B&F only a few years ago which was dominated by senior experienced players. Both last year and this year things have changed.

The positives to come out of this year are that players such as Walker, Murphy, Simpson, Fisher, Waite, Carrazzo, O'Hailpin who have all gotten better and are probably leading the B&F count this year. This is very much a positive for the club.

Players perhaps we are still not convinced about such as Russell, Kennedy, Blackwell, Bentick, Betts managed to have more game time which can only benefit them or help the club determine their worth over the long term. For some of these players it has probably been frustrating i.e.

Russell - Mostly playing as a run with player/been in and out of the side and has not been capable of racking up too many possesions.

Kennedy - Probably not being settled in one general position has not helped but was given plenty of opportuinity early in the season. His development has been somewhat frustrating this season. Has his pinch hitting in the ruck helped him?

Bentick - Great at getting the ball out and tackling but is simply not damaging as a midfielder. Does he enough positives to be around long term????

Blackwell - Much like Bentick except was in and out the side. With both he and Bentick we would have hoped that they would have taken their opportunities a little better like Carrazzo. For both of them though there is still time.

Betts - Needs to become more consistent and develop those midfield capabilities over the next couple of years. Dissapointing to lose him through injury midway through the year.

The young Brigade - Gibbs, Anderson, Grigg, Hartlett, Bower, all got game time this year. The real positives have been Gibbs and Ando for first year players.

The Possibles - Scotland, Houlihan, Whitnell, Fevola - It can be said of all these players that they had up and down seasons. Scotland and Houlihan have been fairly consistent while I think Fev has copped a lot of unecessary flak this year. We have to remember for a large part of the season he played as a decoy, has still managed to kick 40 goals but we have had Fisher, Waite and other players step up to share the load. The biggest disspointment from these fellows has been their percieved leadership both on and off the field. (Scotland, Whitnell, Fev!!!!)

Golden Oldies - While they have been great servants of the club both Kouta and lappin should retire at years end. Kouta has been great for a long time and many times this year he stepped up but both I would argue have lacked leadership.

The dissapointments - Stevens, Cloke, Ackland, McLaren, Saddington.
Stevens we all know was having a ripper year while Cloke showed glimpses before they got injured. For the other other 3, each of their on field positions was there to be taken and none of them have been able to stand up and grasp them.

Making Up the Numbers - Wiggins, Bannister, Teague - While one may argue that both Bannister and Wiggo have played some of their best footy for the club this year each of these players have had ample opportunity to cement a spot in the side and haven't.

Pups - Apart from those already mentioned we have Benjamin. Austin, Hampson, Raso, Edwards, Jackson, Young, Flint, Jacobs, Jamieson, Aisake. This year alone one can be happy with the development of players such as Austin, Jamieson and Aisake at least. For some it is to early to tell particularly Hampson and Jacobs as ruckman but each of these players at least shows plenty of endeavour.

The only player I haven't mentioned is Thornton and one can argue that he has been as consistent as one can be with the ball coming down back as much as it has. I would hope that he will eventually become a more agressive and attacking defending with some support.

For me personally I have been generally happy with the development and improvement of some of our youngsters despite what people think about our year. For those who go to the footy each week you will now that Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Fisher O'Hailpin, Waite and Carrazzo while not perfect have really stepped up this year. The great disppointment for me has been the percieved lack of on field leadership amongst Whitnell, Kouta, Lappin, Houla, Scotland, Fev and even Thornton who has now played 100 games. Having Stevens go down did not help however going forward I think we haver a great base to work from. While I have suggested that a lack of leadership has been a problem it will only get worse with Kouta and lappo likely to retire at years end while some of the other senior players careers are not guaranteed.

So post Pagan perhaps the only certainities are these:


FB: Thornton S. O'Hailpin
NB: Scotland Waite
CE: Simpson Murphy Walker
HF: Fisher Gibbs
FF: Fev
RU: Stevens Carrazzo

Or Are They???

The others:

Russell
Kennedy
Bentick
Whitnell
McLaren
Ackland (only due to his current contract)
Blackwell
Grigg
Bower
Betts
Benjamin
Austin
Hampson
Hartlett
Anderson
Cloke
Houlihan
Raso
Edwards
Jackson
Jacobs
Jamieson
Young
Flint
Aisake

(I have highlighted above in red players who could be traded or at risk of being delisted) I would have added a couple of mor but think perhaps they need additional time.

Those expected to go:

Saddington
Lappin (Retire)
Teague
Bannister
Wiggins
Kouta (Retire)
I agree on most but i can already tell you hate Houlihan if you think he is risk of being delisted,a bit of a soft footballer yeh,trade yes,but not delisted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:26 am 
Offline
Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:45 pm
Posts: 36
i actually don't hate houla and think he will and should remain. i do question his on field leadership and intensity at times but think he potentially has some currency for trade. defintely wouldn't delist him.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:00 pm 
Offline
Bruce Comben

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:04 pm
Posts: 17
Raso and McLaren are certainties to go.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group