With the "youth policy" spoken of by our CEO in yesterday's press conference and likely to be employed for the remainder of the season, and considering the current form(lack of) of Cain Ackland as well as the fact that the Saints are not exactly over-burdened with ruckmen of their own, do not be surprised if Sam Jacobs is promoted to the senior list this week, and plays against St Kilda!

I agree give the kid a run but he is not capable of keeping up with the pace of the game. He is not mobile or fit enough in my opinion. Most of the supporters who say promote Jacobs or Hampson have not seen them play. Playing Jacobs will be like giving the opposition a free man round the ground. Play him for the experience by all means but needs a full 12 months of development, minimum. It was almost as if Denis was scapegoated for not playing Jacobs or Hampson. They are not AFL standard.

Why not.. What have we got to lose.

_________________
James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

they might not be ready however they will offer more in the seniors than ackland. In that respect, it will depend on what the coaching staff/supporters expect from such a promotion - keep the expectations low and within reason and who knows, we might be surprised.

Agree. I have seen these boys in the VFL and they are not ready in my opinion as well. Hampson is still a project in the making and I have my doubts about Jacobs. His lack of mobility around the ground is a concern.
I would play McLaren this week as his form has been OK in the VFL. Then again maybe Ackland can lift against his old side. If he has any pride.

_________________
WE ARE CARLTON, WE ARE ARROGANT AND WE LOVE IT!

Denis's issues go much further than the non-selection of 1 or 2 rookies, its non-selection for 4 1/2 years and continuation of selection of other players known to not be AFL standard. On that point, Ackland has not been AFL standard all year.

They may run off Jacobs but who would you trust to win a tapout?

If they're going to run off Jacobs, can Kouta run with their opposing ruckman and Jacobs push forward?

Its about the overall team.

I've seen em both play...............and i was a big Jacobs fan last year and even watched him a few times in the SANFL................and i'll be honest, I'D CHOOSE THEM BOTH OVER ACKLAND IN A HEARTBEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both Jacobs and Hampson are rucking quite well and effectivley - ACKLAND IS NOT!

It's true, Jacobs does not have the engine to play a full game as a leading ruckman, but if you shared it with Hampson and rotated them both of the bench then it wouldn't be a problem.

Ackland is lazy, immature and quite possibly, a bit self-involved. (Not to mention CRAP!)

Hampson & Jacobs have show a good workload this year, and whilst niether of them are really turning it up around the ground earning 20possesions each.................NEITHER IS ACKLAND!

I'd much rather see Kennedy be put up forward AND LEFT THERE. Now that Fev's out, We have a great opportunity to let Josh show us all what he's got. Let's try and do that without giving him the burddon of the ruckwork as well.

For mine,:

Out:- Ackland

In:- Jacobs & Hampson and rotate them equally throughout the game.

Kennedy to be sent up forward AND NO RUCKING!

or.................

You could always promote Jacobs for a start and rotate him with Setanta.

Setanta has been effective in the past couple of weeks around the ground. I remember a few weeks ago he racked up 18 or so possesion playing in the ruck against melbourne.

Let's not be scared to try these kids. It aint gonna kill em!

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Couldn't care if he was Mick Nolan Mk 2, he'll give us more than Ackland.

He's got a bit of go, too. Let's get people in this team who give a stuff who are better than what they replaced.

He's not under much pressure to reach the average stratospheric Ackland contribution. Now let's see, 8 possession, 8 hitouts.....

Jacobs could compete in the SANFL when I watched him and has more idea of palming than Ackland...I'd give him a go...he wont be a world beater but either is Taylor of Hawthorn.
Jacobs will be a handy NO 2 ruckman behind a more athlectic type and a partnership ruckman rather than a standout individual....
If Pagan ends up coaching another club I would trade Ackland to that club for nothing......they deserve each other...

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

His ruck work and work down forward was superb at the Bullants last week

worth a crack in my opinion

_________________
SMFC 1959 : ONE LIFE, ONE LOVE, ONE CLUB

I haven't seen him play so obviously I vote to elevate

_________________
T E A M

People, Hampson is not a chance to play this year.

a) He's a bit thin, I think. Would be outmuscled.
b) He's not consistent even in VFL Reserves, let alone Bullants Seniors. However, he does go alright in the Reserves.

So, Jacobs in for me, since Aisake is gone for the year. He'd do better than JK in the ruck, but his mobility will be a problem until it's fixed with a cross-training pre-season.

cant possibly do any worse then what weve already got. weve really got nothing to lose

_________________
thats pretty bad-ass!

I'd opt for one or the other, possibly Hampson given the upside.

They're certainly the better option at the centre bounce but they stand to get smashed around the ground.

So for the moment if we were to promote I'd go with Hampson & Ackland/McLaren, and Setanta & Kennedy can relieve. Put Setanta at CHB if the matchup suits and swing Waite forward (maybe even FF) with Kennedy in the square.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Agree re Hampson. I don't know why suddenly we have to play him when he clearly is not ready. There is a reason the kid is playing VFL Reserves at this stage. We always knew he'd be a project player who was highly unlikely to be a realistic chance of playing senior footy this year. Even with our obvious ruck problems I see no reason why we can't just let the kid develop. He will only get battered/outmuscled and generally outplayed in the AFL. Yes you might argue Ackland hardly imposes himself on a match but surely people can see we are better off with his battle-hardened body copping the knees/hits etc in rucking contests with which Hampson would struggle badly should he play seniors. He is not ready and we don't have to make a decision on him anyway, so there's no need for knee-jerk reactions.

_________________
Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Mobility a problem? I've heard it all now. Remember we are comparing young Sammy to Ackland, not Dean Cox. From what I've seen of Sammy he is a superior craftsman in the ruck than Ackland and that is what we need to be competitive around the deadball situations.

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888

Is there any issue with either of them taking the centre bounce then pushing forward? I'd still prefer Hampson over Jacobs myself, but either stands a better chance than Ackland at the opening bounce.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Better than Ackland anywhere ON THE GROUND, they all might break even on the bench, although Hampson/Jacobs might actually go for a warm down

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888

Unplayed Rookies during the Pagan Era 2003-R16 2007
2003 - 42 Callum Beasy, 23 Cameron Croad, 17 Scott Freeborn, 48 Tom Hedge, 38 Adam Matthews, 44 Mark McKenzie, 46 Michael Stinear
List: 43
One-gamers: 1
Two-gamers: 1

2004 - 19 Eddie Betts, 49 Murray Boyd, 35 Blake Campbell, 23 Cameron Croad, 45 Anthony Franchina, 38 Setanta Ó hAilpín, 46 Sam Pleming
List: 41
One-gamers: 0
Two-gamers: 2

2005 - 39 Daniel Batson, 47 Nick Becker, 13 Luke Blackwell, 23 Adam Hartlett, 45 Aisake Ó hAilpín, 46 Sam Pleming, 35 Anthony Raso, 41 Jesse D Smith
List : 44
One-gamers: 2
Two-gamers: 1

2006 - 39 Daniel Batson, 7 Justin Davies, 37 Jake Edwards, 42 Craig Flint, 23 Adam Hartlett, 45 Aisake Ó hAilpín, 35 Anthony Raso, 41 Jesse D Smith
List : 44
One-gamers: 2
Two-gamers: 2

2007 - 21 Mark Austin, 20 Clint Benjamin, 37 Jake Edwards, 42 Craig Flint, 22 Shaun Hampson, 39 Sam Jacobs, 40 Michael Jamison, 10 Dylan McLaren, 45 Aisake Ó hAilpín, 35 Anthony Raso, 15 David Teague
List : 44
One-gamers: 2
Two-gamers: 1

I make no assumptions as to the reason for this or the quality of the player/s at any time .. but it seems to be more than just one or two .. and a few of them were there for a while before being given a run

Let's compare this with the previous coaches, Wayne Brittain (2001-2) and David Parkin (1996-2000 only)...
2002 – 46 Ezra Bray, 38 Adam Matthews.
List: 41
One-gamers: 0
Two-gamers: 0

2001 – 42 Callum Beasey, 35 Blake Campbell, 18 Sam Cranage, 4 Luke Livingstone, 38 Adam Matthews, 26 Sean O’Keeffe, 36 Trent Sporn, 30 Adam White
List: 43
One-gamers: 2
Two-gamers: 2

2000 – 40 Joe Allen, 2 Brett Blackwell, 13 Adam Chatfield, 47 Craig Clarke, 34 Ron De Iulio, 48 Jordan Doering, 35 Jeremy Dukes, 38 Adam Matthews, 49 Mark Passador, 28 Ian Prendergast, 42 Richard Kelly, 46 Adam Pickering, 6 Murray Vance
List: 46
One-gamers: 3
Two-gamers: 0

1999 – List: 43
One-gamers: 2
Two-gamers: 1
No-gamers: 5

1998 – List: 43
One-gamers: 3
Two-gamers: 0
No-gamers: 7

1997 – List: 45
One-gamers: 3
Two-gamers: 1
No-gamers: 4

1996 – List: 42
One-gamers: 3
Two-gamers: 1
No-gamers: 0 (?)

_________________
[Sam Jacobs] looks like a 7' Lance Whitnall, and [Mitch Robinson] looks like a 4' Lance Whitnall
(The SEN team during the Carlton v Cats 2009 pre-season match)

Its more than that Pterg, its the selection of Teague and Sporn last year over Edwards (whose '06 form warranted it), the non-selection of Aisake, Grigg etc. until too late this year, the continued selection of Prenders, Sporn in '05 and '06 and the non-delisting of other stragglers. I know for a fact that Pagan had to be forced to play Bower, Smith and Jackson at the end of 2006.

I dont want to make this into a Pagan thread but we have, as a general rule, preferred to give 'senior players' a go rather than biting the bullet. We should have bitten the bullet years ago, but haven't , and that is part of the reason why we are still rebuilding after 5 1/2 years on the bottom rather than further up the ladder.

Case in point - Round 1, 2007. Wiggins selected after no pre-season (in his own words). What was the risk in playing Bower, Edwards, Hartlett, Grigg, Anderson etc. at that point? We seem very eager to say a Bullant is not up to it but far less eager to judge a senior performance and make the hard call.