Well Mr Carey and someone like Mr Lyon who reckon pagans a great coach. Funny hey would they recommend him to another team. Lets see if Mr Lyon tells his melbourne committee to seek Pagan out. I dont think so.

This cannot do better bullshit, gives me the shits.

You would think they were coaching a little league instead of a multi million dollar corporation such as Carlton.

He would not have survived anywhere else with his record. Where the hell is Carltons arrogance, do you accept being mediocre nowadays.

They want supporters to put up and stand by Carlton, but are they doing their part by weeding out the passengers such as pagan. He is clearly not passionate about Carlton, he is only there for the money.

St Kilda had no money when they hired Blight and go rid of him after a few months. They had the guts to say Blights heart was not in it. Pagan belongs with his horses away from our club before he does more damage.

Hell he has done so much damage to me, let alone the players.

What about working out a deal where Mr Pagan goes to Melbourne, they pay his wage from then, freeing up this $700k for the club...

Good post.

Whoever is coach next year, we need to weed out the behind-the-scenes destabilizers. The ones who are always there with a sympathetic ear when a player wants to have a whinge. Tell them to behave like well-paid professionals rather than prima donnas.

I heard (rumour only) that a new head cleaner was being interviewed next week. Maybe it's for that. Either that or Blues Twos coach for 08.

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Mark Harvey?

This coudl be interesting... in his other jobs, Ayres has taken good teams and slowly but steadily ground them into mediocrity.

Thanks to Pagan he doesn't have much left to screw up here, so what would happen? I'm intrigued.

I truly believe that sometimes sites such as these go too far in thier angst. To call people scumbags and turds and useless and whatever else leaves me speechless.

Particularly when it is directed at someone of sincere integrity such as DP.

Whether he stays or goes will be judged by the aprropriate people at the appropriate time. I sincerely hope that people on here understand that it is far more than one person who makes up game plans and tactics and training drills and recruits and the like.

This club has made some huge and monumental stuff ups in the past few years administrately, player-wise, in coaching. You name it we've stuffed it up.

Take it from me, the club will make the best decision for the club. One would sincerely hope that if that means DP sees out his contract we accept it and acknowledge that it will be based on all the facts. Not just those with a spirited dislike for the man.

Pagan is a fine man, with fine credentials. He's not some low-life as some seem to portray him on here. From my understanding, many would have walked far earlier if they had to put up with what DP has had to put up with.

Is he the right man to take as forward. That's a decision I will trust with Swann and Icke and the like for at last we have some people in place who will do the right thing by the club.

One would sincerely hope that all those people who are saying that they won't buy memberships or won't attend games eventually see that this club was at deaths door - financially, administratevly and operationally.

The one thing I do know is that if, IF DP is moved on it will be done with dignity and professionalism. DP may be yesterday's coach, but at the very least he deserves that.

Its amazing that we are all aiming for 1 person. Some people on here need to open their eyes and expand their vision. There are still a few at this club who are ducking for cover and that is extremely disappointing.

I'm sick of the losses like anyone else. But whether this process takes 1 week or 4 weeks or 10 weeks I trust this club to get it right.

DP has never shirked his responsibilities as coach. Lets hope those "true" supporters on here never have to go through the witch-hunt that is taking place at the moment

Laguna

Centrebet has us paying $4.25 against a side that is two places above us and only won two more games than us

They have richmond paying $3.25 against a side that last week beat last years premiers by 91 points are sitting 5th on the ladder and have won 8 more games than them

what do you think Centrebet is trying to tell us Laguna

5 years after our worst season ever we haven't improved one iota

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I aggree...............

And as much as i want Denis gone.......................i'd never call him scumbag or anything else. I still respect him, i just dont want him as our coach/

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Centrebet should pick the coach then!

You're out of your mind Sydney.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

So explain the odds Jimmae

Do you think we have improved

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Depends on what you call improvement. We have a president seeking 10-11 wins as a minimum, which if we were all honest was setting the bar far too high. Sticks on the other hand says 6-8, which is still achievable.

Have we improved as a club? Off-field - out of site. On-field, judging by wins - only marginally. Have we got games into the younger players - yes. Could we have got more games and time into them - probably.

Coaching-wise, we have added Ratts and Bradley and Crosisca. Certainly better than what we had. Plus we now have additional personnel about to start in development coaches, dieticians and psychologists.

The recruiting area will see more people in place interstate - far better than what we have ever had. Hopefully now we can make better judgement calls rather than hoping a project player makes it.

But I suppose you really want to know what I think of the coach. Is he past it - probably. Could he do better - I don't think so.

My point in all this is that the behaviour of some people towards a respected coach is disgraceful, particularly since the vast majority who are baying for the execution sword weren't even born when he started coaching let alone when he started playing.

I certainly hope that whoever follows in his footsteps is given a fairly long honeymoon period (and Voss seems to be the Prince in Waiting for many here - where that logic comes from I'm not sure - obviously they just want the "romantic" appointment)

I think with a new coach breathing even more life into the place we should raise the bar in 2008.

But Centrebet is not the place to go looking for answers or indications.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

How many posters on this site have called Pagan a scumbag or a turd?
One or two. Lets not lose sight of the fact that most posters dont get personal.

As for when Pagan started coaching or playing, I fail to see the relevance.
Tom Hafey started coaching before Pagan, so did Robert Walls, Allan Jeans and David Parkin.
They're all premiership coaches as well.
Does that mean I'd want them anywhere near our coaches box? No.

I dont like seeing personal attacks on Pagan but lets not set him up as some sort of victim.
In a time that our club has endured enormous debt, he has put his hand out for the best part of 3 million over the journey.
Its a job and he's a very handsomely paid employee. He is probably one of the highest paid coaches in the AFL

Its a business decision and should be treated as such.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

On MMM at the moment - BT (suggesting he has sources) believes that Carlton and Pagan will "come to terms" next week and part....

BT is at it again. Next week will be the peacefull removal of Denis Pagan as coach of Carlton. Apparently the contract payout will be resolved and the Club has found the avenue to pay this contract out. Voss still the talk of the town and will bring in his own staff.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Did he get this scoop at Vlado's too?

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Our list is at the point where 9-10 wins should be achievable. After we won the Pre-season cup and then 2 of the first 3 matches there was no0 reason not to be that mark, especually after 5 years of trying.

Spot on, But watchout you may be classified as a troll you make too much sense

Hmmm ... didn't we lose some blond-haired dude after round 3, and our best ruckman shortly afterwards?