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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:57 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21544
Location: North of the border
Indie wrote:
The problem with Paul Bower is that we're playing him out of position. His natural game isn't a defensive one. And yet we are forcing him to be a defender. Why do we try to make everyone into a defender?


Because after 5 years we still only have one

And he aint much chop either


He should have left Setanta there - its easier playing the game when you only have to go one direction and if we are going to use our senoir side as a lab and training facility we should use it correctly -

Bower should be on the wing - he out marked an opponent today got himself in the right position then proceeded to take off like a scared rabbit only to be caught - He has been instructed to move the ball on at all cost it shows in the way we play . No one stops assesses their options then chooses the best - they continoually play rabbit in head lights stuff

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:58 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Sydney Blue wrote:
They need to allow the footballers to play football and the athletic try hards to try hard roles .

To many blokes are getting games because of effort and not skill
While to many skilled players are stuck doing the accountable roles

wiggens plays the small forward role and has kicked 20 goals in 86 games .

wiggens needs to be given the role that Houlihan gets because if houlihan played forward he would kick 2 or 3 each week

they keep trying to turn top liners into dower defenders and players who should be in defensive role playing the play makers role

Effort is one thing be you also have to reward skill and it doesn't happen


I thought you went to the game today :?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:02 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Posts: 21544
Location: North of the border
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They need to allow the footballers to play football and the athletic try hards to try hard roles .

To many blokes are getting games because of effort and not skill
While to many skilled players are stuck doing the accountable roles

wiggens plays the small forward role and has kicked 20 goals in 86 games .

wiggens needs to be given the role that Houlihan gets because if houlihan played forward he would kick 2 or 3 each week

they keep trying to turn top liners into dower defenders and players who should be in defensive role playing the play makers role

Effort is one thing be you also have to reward skill and it doesn't happen


I thought you went to the game today :?



I did where were you

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:10 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:21 am
Posts: 7
Location: Melbourne
The problems began after round 3.

Stevo's loss mean that we had to play young inexperienced players in the midfield, some of which don't have the polish to play Stevo's role eg Carazzo and Bentick.

Then Cameron Cloke also goes down and Acklands loss of form can't be underestimated. With Ackland being down and lately out, our defence has been a rabble. It went from being settled one to a merry go round. First we had Carlos playing and holding down fullback, Waite at CHB, Walker and Holihan on the HBF's with Scotland and Thornton providing the run out od defence as well. Since then Carlos has had to play ruck, we have tried Lance, Bower, and Hartlett in defence all to no avail. This then meant that Kennedy has to be played out of position as relief ruckman. Add to this Fev's petulance and the problems snowball out of control. We have guys playing who are curently either out of their depth or out of position.

Sadly, the solution is not something that can be achieved overnight. As a start, we quite frankly can't afford to win another game ( round 22 v Demons looms as a danger game), the extra picks won't be our saviour but it can't hurt either. The trick is to use the picks wisely.

Our only way back is through the draft and then hope Bower, Hartlett or Edwards can join Thornton to become the same defensive unit that we once had in the 90's. Then we cross our fingers tha Murphy and Gibbs become the guns we hope they would be, we hope the JK does a Roughead and finally comes good andHampson and Grigg take off in 2008.

The road ahead is a long one, there is no one solution nor is there a fast one either.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:13 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Indie wrote:
The problem with Paul Bower is that we're playing him out of position. His natural game isn't a defensive one. And yet we are forcing him to be a defender. Why do we try to make everyone into a defender?




Indie we are in agreement that he isn't a defender, and it's an old school idea to play kids in the back line early, so they can play ''straight ahead''.
Obviously not successful in all cases. As for Paul Bower, I suspect he may be a dud, but I will be absolutely delighted to be proven wrong.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:18 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6413
First thing tomorrow is say thanks to DP for a job well [REDACTED] up

Install Ratten as coach see how he goes but start looking for a new one now with broad minded approach.

It doesnt have to be a big name

Its the right man for the job

Melbourne's already looking


Freo will be looking too

We need a young innovative coach who relates well to young players

Its common Knowledge that Pagan doesnt put the time into the bottom tier part of the list

We must relieve Stick of all committments related to the footy department

Stay on as V.P but no say on footy issues.
His everyone's mate and you cant have that at the footy club.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:18 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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murraycray wrote:
Indie wrote:
The problem with Paul Bower is that we're playing him out of position. His natural game isn't a defensive one. And yet we are forcing him to be a defender. Why do we try to make everyone into a defender?




Indie we are in agreement that he isn't a defender, and it's an old school idea to play kids in the back line early, so they can play ''straight ahead''.
Obviously not successful in all cases. As for Paul Bower, I suspect he may be a dud, but I will be absolutely delighted to be proven wrong.


Bower was recruited as a CHB, he played CHB in WA Colts, he flogged Kennedy in the GF at CHB the year he was recruited apparently.

Personally, Bower looks nothing like a CHB and is ten years from making that position his own. We don't need Bower as a flanker he does not have the skills required or the penetration to play that position.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:51 am
Posts: 442
I am not going to blame individuals but I am hoping that a new coach comes in with a totally independant mindset and makes some hard decisions, such as

Retire; Kouta, Lappin, Whitnall, Teague, Saddington

Trade/Delist; Bannister, Wiggins, Houlihan, Betts (Yes - I think he could be a trade option, can do great things but doesn't do them often enough), FEVOLA (there are clubs that could win a flag with him, whereas we probably won't without major changes), Bentick? and some others....

Coach; McKenna or Ratts

Ins; Hurn, Seaby and KP defender, Kruezer with pp, Palmer if he is still available with our next pick if we don't use if for a KP defender.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:27 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Posts: 28528
Location: Free Beer!!
Sydney Blue wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They need to allow the footballers to play football and the athletic try hards to try hard roles .

To many blokes are getting games because of effort and not skill
While to many skilled players are stuck doing the accountable roles

wiggens plays the small forward role and has kicked 20 goals in 86 games .

wiggens needs to be given the role that Houlihan gets because if houlihan played forward he would kick 2 or 3 each week

they keep trying to turn top liners into dower defenders and players who should be in defensive role playing the play makers role

Effort is one thing be you also have to reward skill and it doesn't happen


I thought you went to the game today :?



I did where were you


I was at home, watching on tv, where I could clearly see Wiggins playing in the backline, where he's played most of his football.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21544
Location: North of the border
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They need to allow the footballers to play football and the athletic try hards to try hard roles .

To many blokes are getting games because of effort and not skill
While to many skilled players are stuck doing the accountable roles

wiggens plays the small forward role and has kicked 20 goals in 86 games .

wiggens needs to be given the role that Houlihan gets because if houlihan played forward he would kick 2 or 3 each week

they keep trying to turn top liners into dower defenders and players who should be in defensive role playing the play makers role

Effort is one thing be you also have to reward skill and it doesn't happen


I thought you went to the game today :?



I did where were you


I was at home, watching on tv, where I could clearly see Wiggins playing in the backline, where he's played most of his football.


He started in defence and finished in defence spent periods on the bench in the middle and up forward e has been playing the HF link for most of the year but he is no good at it he should have been playing for the bullants along with Sentanta - Bannister , Betts and Young - but the worry is you only have Russell - Blackwell and Ackland and maybe Grigg who could have replaced them

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:08 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Location: Oak Park
mjonc wrote:
murraycray wrote:
Indie wrote:
The problem with Paul Bower is that we're playing him out of position. His natural game isn't a defensive one. And yet we are forcing him to be a defender. Why do we try to make everyone into a defender?




Indie we are in agreement that he isn't a defender, and it's an old school idea to play kids in the back line early, so they can play ''straight ahead''.
Obviously not successful in all cases. As for Paul Bower, I suspect he may be a dud, but I will be absolutely delighted to be proven wrong.


Bower was recruited as a CHB, he played CHB in WA Colts, he flogged Kennedy in the GF at CHB the year he was recruited apparently.

Personally, Bower looks nothing like a CHB and is ten years from making that position his own. We don't need Bower as a flanker he does not have the skills required or the penetration to play that position.


also AA CHB in 2005 after the carnival

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:37 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 3768
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They need to allow the footballers to play football and the athletic try hards to try hard roles .

To many blokes are getting games because of effort and not skill
While to many skilled players are stuck doing the accountable roles

wiggens plays the small forward role and has kicked 20 goals in 86 games .

wiggens needs to be given the role that Houlihan gets because if houlihan played forward he would kick 2 or 3 each week

they keep trying to turn top liners into dower defenders and players who should be in defensive role playing the play makers role

Effort is one thing be you also have to reward skill and it doesn't happen


I thought you went to the game today :?



I did where were you


I was at home, watching on tv, where I could clearly see Wiggins playing in the backline, where he's played most of his football.
Wiggins played in defence on O'Keefe- something he hasn't done in a while.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 17893
Wiggins is definitively indicative of where this club is at.
7 years in the system. Clearly not up to it to be an AFL player but he remains in the team cos he's a goer. His upside is minimal. I hope he isnt contracted for 2008

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:07 am 
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Geoff Southby
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buzzaaaah wrote:
Wiggins is definitively indicative of where this club is at.
7 years in the system. Clearly not up to it to be an AFL player but he remains in the team cos he's a goer. His upside is minimal. I hope he isnt contracted for 2008


Yes, he is, signed for 2 years in last year.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:22 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Location: Melbourne
buzzaaaah wrote:
Wiggins is definitively indicative of where this club is at.
7 years in the system. Clearly not up to it to be an AFL player but he remains in the team cos he's a goer. His upside is minimal. I hope he isnt contracted for 2008


sadly, i aggree....................

i love him cause of his passion & desire, but sadly i aggree.

The saddest thing of all thou is i think he has a few mates with him in the same boat!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:43 pm
Posts: 322
depth
leadership
leadership development
coaching
recruitment
off field stability
financial power
facilities
resources
being pro-active

we need to improve in all these area's. we have started to make improvements, but there are plenty more improvemenst that need to happen.

so far we have seen or are about to see

improved facilities at PP
additions to the recruiting dept
introduction of development coachs and football academy
pratts money and others who tipped in on the back of his generosity
getting pub/hotel deal in place

all this off field activity helps the onfield performances, but the on field stuff takes time and patience and hard work.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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molsey wrote:
buzzaaaah wrote:
Wiggins is definitively indicative of where this club is at.
7 years in the system. Clearly not up to it to be an AFL player but he remains in the team cos he's a goer. His upside is minimal. I hope he isnt contracted for 2008


Yes, he is, signed for 2 years in last year.


You bloody taswegians. You couldnt send us someone like Baldock or Royce hart could you, No you send the wiggler

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 1354
some of you obviously never saw Michael Sexton when he first started. Now here was a bloke that had absolutely no idea in his first 10 games ... the games were slower ... he never played in a team that got flogged week in week out ... he also had the luxury of playing around good players with plenty of experience ... he adjusted and went onto become a great player for Carlton.

Steady on everyone with Bower. That incorrect decision in haste destroyed his confidence. I hope we persist with him.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:16 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1499
Location: Sydney
Siegfried wrote:
BlueJean wrote:
...hoops :roll:


Went onto Davis after he'd kicked 3 in the second quarter, and completely shut him out of the game, to the extent that Davis was dragged.


This is something I fail to understand with our coaching staff.

Players are not allowed time to settle in any position which in turn leads to an inability to form a cohesive team. If we are determined to play Hoops in the backline as a backpocket then @#$%&! leave him there. Last week I had my doubts about him on Davey but he did a great job - this week Davis was the obvious danger in the forward line that after last weeks performance was the ideal player for Hoops to match up upon.

We have been copping hiding for so long now why dont we settle on a structured line up that allows players to play in the same position week in week out with the same players around them so the can learn to team together.

For some reason this club doesnt rate ruckman - yet when you have a look at "Big Nick", "Harry", "Fitzy" and even dare I say it Matty Allen we have had some pretty good ones that contributed to us being successfull over a long period. How about we bring in one of the raw kids ahead of Ackland and let him go for it for the rest of the year.

Why not put a side together such as below and leave it for the rest of the year and see what happens

Houla Setanta TBird
Scotland Waite Bower
Simmo Carrots Russel
Fish Kennedy Gibbs
Wiggo Fev Lappin
Jacobs (Aisake cept inj) Murph Walker
Kouta Blackers Grigg Anderson/Betts

Call it tanking but I would rather see how we went with this - it cant be worse than seeing a bit of promise only to have then dropped or played in a foreign position a week later.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:09 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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BlueJean wrote:
trade fev....lance gone...skinny and kouta on VERY shaky ground...hoops :roll:

In our best players again last week.
Fashionable to call for his head, though.

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