We'll finish where we finish. And if we don't win another game, it won't be from tanking. It'll be because this year we are too young and don't have enough depth of experienced players, particularly to cover the loss of Stevens and our only half decent ruckmen (Cloke and Mclaren). We'll be great in the years to come regardless of the PP, if we get the important stuff right.

At the end of the day, another high draft pick is great. But if we're so desperate for it, trade Fev. It won't make more than a 2% difference in our success in the next 10 years. What will make the difference is if the secound round picks and beyond come on. Simmo, Fish and Carrats are playing as well as many first/second round picks at the moment. That's where our improvement will need to come from to make us a force. Not one additional player. But even more so, playing like a team with a strong game plan. Sydney is proof of that. Given that Kirk is one of their most important players it says a lot about their team.

nytdog, the best backtracker in the business.

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I'm not a true Carltron supporter. I'll be at the Gabba next week cheering for Carlton.

Actually, I'm going to be in a rather unpleasant environment. Normally when I cheer for Carlton I would only get beaten up by Lions supporters, but now I'm going to get beaten up by Carlton supporters too.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

POTW

I'll be there too Verbs - enjoying the corporate box of a Lions supporter while wearing my Carlton shirt with two other Carlton fans....
But by then - it won't matter that we're cheering for Carlton, because tomorrow's win will unite the club behind the team for the rest of the year!!

It's going to be tough, but just 7 to go.

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Yes...well... Do we sack Pagan now or wait till the end of the year and make a certainty of it?

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

This whole thread is hilarious, anyone who thinks we are tanking gives Pagan way too much credit, he's not good enough to tank!

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1. Walker,
2. Menzel,
3. Murphy,
4. Gibbs,
5. Judd.

Exactly, sack him and we will probably win one for our new coach.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Simple truth is that the Fossil lost the players a long time ago, just watch the efforts (NOT) of the few senior players we have. This does not take long to seep into the young guys too. So, yup, we're not tanking at all, he just isn't an AFL coach anymore. Plain and simple.

Surely though, we'd all rather have Voss or Ratts or McKenna coaching us with Kreuzer, than without him ?? So we must use the AFL's lovely gift this year, before its taken away forever. FFS we've put up with 5 years of Pago.........7 more weeks ain't too much to bear is it ??

This is a really good point actually. My strong feeling (NOT based on any inside knowledge, I should stress) is that the AFL will (yet again) change the PP rule at the end of this year, and get rid of the PP before round 1 completely. There has once again been way too much discussion and inuendo surrounding it, and the AFL hate that kind of thing.

So...this may very well be the last opportunity ever to get 2 picks in the top 3 or 4 in a single draft. There is a compelling argument to say we should take advantage of it.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

This year shows why the AFL had to get rid of the old PP system, where one bad year gave you a bit fat bonus.

Imagine this scenario: if all of Richmond, Melbourne and Carlton won one more game for rest of the season, here's how the draft picks would pan out:

1 Richmond
2 Melbourne
3 Richmond
4 Melbourne
5 Carlton

Pretty much the ultimate nightmare scenario. No way should any team be so richly rewarded for one bad year out of the blue, such as Melbourne is having this year.

I had a look at my tea leafs this morning and am convinced we win round 22. The Dees will be tanking to get a better pick.

...Dont worry we have something they dont...Dennis... ...and I'm sure even if this plan fails...I believe the players will refuse to say g'bye to him with a win.

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" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.

Just thinking ...how many 'anti-tanking members' of the 35000+ this year will drop their memberships in disgust next year if they are convinced we have tanked games at the end of this year and what kind of negative impact will the media (the likes of Dwayne Russell & co.) place on the club?

It's a dangerous situation, this.

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There's so much I could say...

Agreed: I have nightmare's that this will surely happen

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

I didnt mind changing the rule to 2 years for a PP prior to the first round. I do have an issue though with the exclusion of results from the 2005 season. We should have had pick 2 last year - no disrespect to grigg, but he was pick 17, we should have had our pick of hansen, leunbeurger, gumbleton, etc