I'll buy an extra membership if Pagan doesn't coach Carlton next season.

But what's next chicken giblets and manure.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Now THAT is a spray!



I'LL BUY 10 MEMBERSHIPS IF WALDO48 COACHES US

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#DonTheStash

You would think not but let's not right the season off yet.......you never know......

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Wisdom tells me I am nothing
Love tells me I am everything
Between the two my life flows

without reading the whole thread - i know Rich personally (and was shocked when i realised he started the thread) like most of us i'm begining to get frustrated with Pagan.
Anyway the point i am trying to make is that Rich does an awful lot for the club that goes unrewarded, and unappreciated. Rich runs the Canberra Carlton Blues supporters group and does a great job at that, with minimal time. He knows better than most of the value of a membership and how little he gets from his (living in canberra).
So don't take his comments lightly people, this is no troll form tigerland.

I can understand the frustration, and maybe i'm just blind stubborn/ignorant but i'll stump up the cash for a membership each and every year i possibly can.

While we remain the Carlton Football Club, I remain a member.

G'day Rich,

I don't quite get it!

Whilst your stand might be perceived by you as being admirable and a public outcry as to your feelings re DP, what do you expect it to actually achieve?

Why do the very thing that, even you acknowledge, will hurt the club the most. You are threatening to withold $ from the club during a period when $ is exactly what is needed.

We can all go on about the disappointments, the what ifs, the if only's....

But what about the future? I'm not questioning your feelings for the Blues but I do not for one minute understand how you could threaten to withhold your financial committment from the club.

By all accounts you are a long term passionate supporter - I accept this, but what will your threat achieve? The club won't sack DP simply because you threaten to withold membership $. If the board did so, it would be derelict in its duty.

Surely we expect the board to assess, rationally, calmly and logically how the team and the coach have performed. We have just voted in a new board, give them a chance to show what they have to offer before tearing up the membership. Perhaps astute businessmen like all of those on the board, can be trusted to ensure the club is in the best hands.

Oh, and by the way, I will defintelty be signing up again come what may, because the Blues are a lifestyle thing for me.

regards

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

I'll still renew in 08 if Pagan stays... but GEEZ I hate playing home games at the HELLSTRA DOME.
Fair dinkum, that place gives me the shits.
The sooner we piss off to the MCG the better.
... as for a new coach? Dunno, maybe Jack Thomson?

Don't understand the call to sack Pagan at this stage of the season. Let the man do the job. I understand the original poster's frustration. None of us Carlton supporters like to lose.

Let's ride out the bad times together now, and enjoy the imminent good times. It will be so much sweeter when it happens. Let's give Pagan our support and let him do what he is meant to do. All these negativity will not do him, nor the Carlton footy club any good. Pagan is trying as hard as he can.

He is not deliberately trying to lose games. The reality is that he is a good coach. There is no doubt about it. His record says it all. The only reason some supporters are calling for his sacking is because we aren't doing as well as we all would like. But let's understand the reason for it. We have injuries, we have inexperienced players who haven't gelled together like a West Coast, Sydney or Bulldogs. However, it WILL all come together.

I for one, will buy a membership in 2008 regardless. But I would still like Pagan to see out his contract at the very least.

Perhaps that is enough for you exsing but some of us expect more.
Football is a cut throat business. Ask the hundreds of players Pagan has cut loose over the years.
Livo was trying as hard as he could. Sporn was'nt "trying to lose games."
Pagan believed they were'nt up to the task. Off they went.

I feel the same way about Pagan. I dont want to accept another 18 months of mediocrity. He may be "trying as hard as he can" but unfortunately, I expect more.

I'll be buying my membership and supporting the club but it doesnt mean I have to blindly accept sub standard performance.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I take your point blue vein. But that's like saying just because Worsfold won a premiership for West Coast, it means that if we get him at Carlton, we will win a premiership.

The point is, we all want success ASAP. Now to have that, do we take a chance given the injuries, the inexperience etc, and sack Pagan, or do we let him see out his contract?

We don't know if a new coach will give us immediate success, and we don't know that Pagan will not deliver us a premiership if the Carlton side started to gell together and we have a bit more luck with injuries. So, rather than create more uncertainties by replacing Pagan, why don't we just bite the bullet and go with what we have for now?

I have said this before, but I REALLY believe that once we get a few more games into our young brigade, it will show on the field. Pagan is a proven coach. Let's give him our support and give him an opportunity to work with the gems we currently have.

It's been mentioned to death, but no one seems to give it due consideration. Pagan inherited a sh*tty side. The club was in debt. It was in turmoil both internally and externally. He didn't have the opportunity to have the early draft picks to mold the side into genuine permiership contenders. He had to do recruit players like (no disrepect to them btw) Harford, Morrell, Teague, Chambers etc to offset our draft penalties.

I can't stand watching us lose as much as any of you. But we have to put it all in perspective. Let's not criticise the coach just because it's easy to do so. Persevere for goodness sakes.

It's been a few hard years. Let's ride it out. Few more games into Gibbs, Murphy, Walker, Setanta, Simpson, Carazzo, Young, Betts et al and we'll SERIOUSLY be flying. Do you guys know just how good these guys will be??? My god...I am salivating at the thought of these guys being the cream of the competition in the not-too-distant future.

COME ON MIGHTY BLUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pagan did inherit a poor list exsing. The club was in debt. The club was in turmoil.

But do I believe Pagan has performed as well as Roos, Worsfold, Malthouse, Craig, Matthews or even Mark Williams?
No.
Do I believe Pagan has given our players the knowledge and football education to compete with their contemporarys?
No.
I stated early in 2003 that Pagan was training our players to play without creativity and an ability to make decisions. Has that had a detrimental effect on our player?
In my opinion, definitely.

As for your point about Worsfold,



I dont understand where you draw this parrallel from.

What success Worsfold has depends on his list, support, coaching ability and luck.
At the moment he's ahead of Denis on most counts.

BTW, just because DEnis was a great coach 10-15 years ago doesnt mean he is now.
Otherwise we should be chasing Alan Jeans to coach. He has secured more success than Denis.
It doesnt work that way.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Hey exsing, how many other coaches take an outstanding no 1 draft pick mid-fielder and shove him in the back pocket playing tag on bad matchups?

Walker has done this for 3 years, now Gibbs is heading the same way. That in itself should ring alarm bells.

Hey guys, I am in no way affiliated with Pagan, nor am I a Pagan fanboy. Hopefully you guys don't think I am defending Pagan for the sake of it. I am simply saying what I feel is best for the club at the moment.

I cannot say I am an expert coach. Far from it. I am a football fan and watch the game for the love of it. I don't know why Pagan makes the decisions he makes. But with his experience, there must be a reason. And the coaching committee is made up of several ppl. Not just one.

If the decision he makes on Gibbs' and Walker's position is that bad and so ludicrous, he would have been told to change it. We all know by now that the powers that be at Carlton have no qualms about letting Pagan know if they disagree with his decisions (refer to Zantuck and Mitchell).

So why are we just blaming Pagan? Maybe Bradley doesn't think Gibbs is suited to the midfield structure at the moment? Maybe Ratten doesn't think Gibbs is suited to his forward structure at the moment? Maybe Crosisca firmly believes that Gibbs will gain more from playing in the backline for a while? We don't know that, unless we are intimately involved in the club.

Sorry if I'm not making much sense. Work is taking its toll...

But I understand we are all carlton supporters and want the club to do well. It's just a difference in opinion. No big deal. Discussions and debates are healthy!

The last 3 drafts - 05, 06, 07 the stats are as follows

Swans
Players drafted - 30
Games played - 45
Ave - 1.5

WCE
players drafted - 25
Games played - 88
Ave - 3.5

Blues
Players drafted - 28
Games played - 182
Ave - 6.5

No, we don't play the kids . If only Denis could rely on chosing players 22 plus and not have to rely on the majority of quality being 18-22.

After our second debacle in a row, if the Club keeps for whatever reasons decides to keep Pagan on next year, I somehow doubt I'll be the only one not renewing my membership...

Surely it's just a matter of time, but we musn't Voss over the issue, er, sorry, I mean gloss...

Rich

Will you close down your website and affiliate links if Pagan coaches in 2008 as well?

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

I hope Sir Richard has a enough self respect to not put up with Pagan for any longer. He's laying it on a plate before him - Dick just needs to make the call.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

I probably won't have a choice Jarusa since I'll probably have to rename the site to Canberra Carlton Roos sometime soon if he does keep coaching us.

It'll make your life easier too since BlueSum won't need much updating, certainly in terms of Carlton's current Club situation, even with Dick Pratt on board!

What price would you pay for our team to be coached by someone who'll teach our players how to bloody well man up!!!

Glad you are taking things seriously and not exaggerating.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

You dont think the Canberra Carlton Roos is realistic?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

He has to go after this peformance

This is important so that young kids get a crack

This wont happen if Pagan is still there

I have a feeling these last 2 weeks will be looked on as a turning point in the club's recent history.

We have to change our style of game so we dont concede 150 +scores

We must play untried players even if their form in the 2s isnt great

many of our senior players are not up to it. The time has come to drop them and not play them again

And that can happen if Pagan is shown the door

No more excuses

No more arguments

Just do it for the better of the club

Rich"s inital post is a beauty

Those who lampooned him didnt see the cancer that is Pagan on the club

Now we have had 2 pathetic weeks we can see we haven't improved

We have one game plan which isnt suited to winning games

Our youngsters in the seniors and reserves arnt developing fast enough

It gives another coach 9 weeks to try something different

So what if Voss is a done deal

I dont want Houlihan, Ackland, Saddington, Bannister etc in the team next year

I dont want Pagan around when these players future's are discussed at seasons end.

Its time to do it

I want this club to be great on the field again.