New injury puts Whitnall's future in doubt

BlueMark · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:03 pm

Yep and got torn apart for that article as well, we were at the time playing insipid footy, the next week we came out and played with a passion that had been missing for weeks. Since then while we have some shockers, you can at least see that overall the group is improving, which is to the good. Nice of you to point out the one truly negetative thread I have posted about the team amongst the dozens of positative threads I have posted. Good work, like it.

GWS you maybe the expection to the rule, just noted who were in the vanguard of the charge against coach and board last year.

Rhys26 · **Joined:** Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:12 am **Posts:** 1730

GWS wrote:

BlueMark wrote:

I also note those who advocate an aggressive youth policy are also the first and loudest to scream when we finish on the bottom. Can't have it both ways. If you go youth then expect to finish near the bottom for a number of years until they develop, that why last year and this year I am not concerned by the patchy form.

Garbage.

SOME people might fit that description but don't try to paint everyone with the same brush in order to prop up your flimsy arguments.

I've been advocating a youth policy for years and have said all along that I don't give a damn about where we finish on the ladder providing we're showing signs of real development.

I don't think I'm alone there either.

Sounds like the Hawthorn model and unfortunately we didn't apply it - look where they are now and look where we are. If only tough decisions were made on blokes like Whitnall, and Kouta we would have been in a better position going forward.
By the way BlueMark your general comment about playing kids and finishing last and the angry fans is a load of crap. Iâ€™d gladly take last if it meant kids like Bower, Kennedy, Edwards, Blackwell etc are given more senior opportunity and exposure to become better long term players.

BlueMark · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:11 pm

Rhys, did you sit in the crowd last year and hear the comments? Some of it was disgraceful. The crowd this year is much better. Seems to be a better exceptence that we have some way to go. Some of the stuff online was worse, I actually stopped posting because it was so bad. While I agree I may have generalised and thus have upset some posters, and for that I apologise, but the fact remains, many of those who advocate a youth policy are the first to draw the swords when we finish bottom.

GWS · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:16 pm

BlueMark wrote:

...the fact remains, many of those who advocate a youth policy are the first to draw the swords when we finish bottom.

Doesn't matter how many times you say it Mark it's still bullshit.

All those people who wanted us to tank over the last couple of years?

We're they complaining when we finished on the bottom?

As for using the crowd's behaviour as a guide to whether we're on the right track or not... :lol:

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:20 pm

BlueMark wrote:

Synners what did Kouta do to get back in your good books, a couple of years ago you were calling him a traitor.

The problem with delist, delist, delist, delist players is that we will never improve as a team, you need a blend of experience and youth, a balance. While I agree that Lappin, Kouta and Lance are nearing the end of thier careers I also, believe that they should be retired with grace and dignity. They have been great players for the club and at thier best breathtaking, thus deserving a measure of respect, to tear them down only demeans us as a club.
I also note those who advocate an aggressive youth policy are also the first and loudest to scream when we finish on the bottom. Can't have it both ways. If you go youth then expect to finish near the bottom for a number of years until they develop, that why last year and this year I am not concerned by the patchy form. Fact is we are getting better, you can see it, I just wish people would recognise it, acknowledge it and give credit were it is due. Patience ,we will get there.

Blue Mark are you making things up again... ???? :lol:

Find where i called him a "traitor"...

We dont want to finish in nowhere land. id rather play kids and develop them properly than finish nowhere in the middle propped up with players taking us nowhere..

But i love your twists to the truth but keep going.. youre funny... :lol:

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

Off field we are finally seeing a structured and positive approach to address the predominate financial issues which will secure our long term future as a club.
On field you need more than just finsihing down the bottom to get back up again. From where I sit there has been little structure in terms of list managment and planning for the future. It has been policy on the run and I can site many examples. I have faith in the new people at the club to turn this around as long as the ones that have been around for a while are removed from the process.

4thchicken · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am **Posts:** 3136

welcomebackcattogio wrote:

BlueMark wrote:

Synners what did Kouta do to get back in your good books, a couple of years ago you were calling him a traitor.

The problem with delist, delist, delist, delist players is that we will never improve as a team, you need a blend of experience and youth, a balance. While I agree that Lappin, Kouta and Lance are nearing the end of thier careers I also, believe that they should be retired with grace and dignity. They have been great players for the club and at thier best breathtaking, thus deserving a measure of respect, to tear them down only demeans us as a club.
I also note those who advocate an aggressive youth policy are also the first and loudest to scream when we finish on the bottom. Can't have it both ways. If you go youth then expect to finish near the bottom for a number of years until they develop, that why last year and this year I am not concerned by the patchy form. Fact is we are getting better, you can see it, I just wish people would recognise it, acknowledge it and give credit were it is due. Patience ,we will get there.

Meh, 2 years ago (see link below) you said you would trade or delist everyone over 25, now you want us to respect them. At least Synbad is a little more consistent.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... =bombshell

Synbad consistent? :lol:

- I've heard it all now.

The thing is what we really should be doing is retiring murphy, giibs and walker. They add nothing to the team and are holding us back from our next flag - not to mention that stevens and the o'hailpin brothers!

Delist them! You know I'm right - I will be right... eventually...

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:30 pm

4thchicken wrote:

welcomebackcattogio wrote:

BlueMark wrote:

Synners what did Kouta do to get back in your good books, a couple of years ago you were calling him a traitor.

The problem with delist, delist, delist, delist players is that we will never improve as a team, you need a blend of experience and youth, a balance. While I agree that Lappin, Kouta and Lance are nearing the end of thier careers I also, believe that they should be retired with grace and dignity. They have been great players for the club and at thier best breathtaking, thus deserving a measure of respect, to tear them down only demeans us as a club.
I also note those who advocate an aggressive youth policy are also the first and loudest to scream when we finish on the bottom. Can't have it both ways. If you go youth then expect to finish near the bottom for a number of years until they develop, that why last year and this year I am not concerned by the patchy form. Fact is we are getting better, you can see it, I just wish people would recognise it, acknowledge it and give credit were it is due. Patience ,we will get there.

Meh, 2 years ago (see link below) you said you would trade or delist everyone over 25, now you want us to respect them. At least Synbad is a little more consistent.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... =bombshell

Synbad consistent? :lol:

- I've heard it all now.

The thing is what we really should be doing is retiring murphy, giibs and walker. They add nothing to the team and are holding us back from our next flag - not to mention that stevens and the o'hailpin brothers!

Delist them! You know I'm right - I will be right... eventually...

Yes you will be right.. but youre abit ahead of yourself.. im not...
I dont have a problem waiting and sticking to a plan.. without the baggage that weighs us down.

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:33 pm

DownUnderChick wrote:

welcomebackcattogio wrote:

BlueMark wrote:

Synners what did Kouta do to get back in your good books, a couple of years ago you were calling him a traitor.

The problem with delist, delist, delist, delist players is that we will never improve as a team, you need a blend of experience and youth, a balance. While I agree that Lappin, Kouta and Lance are nearing the end of thier careers I also, believe that they should be retired with grace and dignity. They have been great players for the club and at thier best breathtaking, thus deserving a measure of respect, to tear them down only demeans us as a club.
I also note those who advocate an aggressive youth policy are also the first and loudest to scream when we finish on the bottom. Can't have it both ways. If you go youth then expect to finish near the bottom for a number of years until they develop, that why last year and this year I am not concerned by the patchy form. Fact is we are getting better, you can see it, I just wish people would recognise it, acknowledge it and give credit were it is due. Patience ,we will get there.

Meh, 2 years ago (see link below) you said you would trade or delist everyone over 25, now you want us to respect them. At least Synbad is a little more consistent.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... =bombshell

Ouch

Double ouch!!!

Its the MarkyMark way to make things up as he goes along... :wink:

ryan2000 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:50 pm

WOW!

If, as expected, Kouta & Lappin retire at the end of the year and we do infact delist/trade Whitnall....................that's an AWFULL lot of experience walking out the door. Close to 700games right there!

Who would be the next experienced player in our side of that happens?

Scotland? Thornton? Fev?..........................Not much else there really.

Lance had a pretty good year last year and had had some good & bad games this year. But if we have been playing him whilst injured then really the MC has a lot to answer for if not MORE than what Lance does.

Rest him, see how he goes then. But i wouldn't be delisting him.

Rhys26 · **Joined:** Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:12 am **Posts:** 1730

ryan2000 wrote:

WOW!

If, as expected, Kouta & Lappin retire at the end of the year and we do infact delist/trade Whitnall....................that's an AWFULL lot of experience walking out the door. Close to 700games right there!

Who would be the next experienced player in our side of that happens?

Scotland? Thornton? Fev?..........................Not much else there really.

Lance had a pretty good year last year and had had some good & bad games this year. But if we have been playing him whilst injured then really the MC has a lot to answer for if not MORE than what Lance does.

Rest him, see how he goes then. But i wouldn't be delisting him.

Lets not take too many risks and try a new structure or system.
We have only been finishing last or second last for the last 5 years!!

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:28 pm

ryan2000 wrote:

WOW!

If, as expected, Kouta & Lappin retire at the end of the year and we do infact delist/trade Whitnall....................that's an AWFULL lot of experience walking out the door. Close to 700games right there!

Who would be the next experienced player in our side of that happens?

Scotland? Thornton? Fev?..........................Not much else there really.

Lance had a pretty good year last year and had had some good & bad games this year. But if we have been playing him whilst injured then really the MC has a lot to answer for if not MORE than what Lance does.

Rest him, see how he goes then. But i wouldn't be delisting him.

Ryan.. you forget next year theyre one year older and blokes like simmo Waite Fish Waite Wiggo Scotland Stevens Bannister and even Walker are no longer kids.
Its a young team but they dont need their hands held by Lance and Kouta.. in fact they dont even do that so its no great loss.

I expect the club will still retain Kouta around the club...

Skinny might want to retire at the end of the season
Lance is shot!

Move on.. there is nothing to see here....

steve · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:35 pm

BlueMark wrote:

Synners what did Kouta do to get back in your good books, a couple of years ago you were calling him a traitor.

The problem with delist, delist, delist, delist players is that we will never improve as a team, you need a blend of experience and youth, a balance. While I agree that Lappin, Kouta and Lance are nearing the end of thier careers I also, believe that they should be retired with grace and dignity. They have been great players for the club and at thier best breathtaking, thus deserving a measure of respect, to tear them down only demeans us as a club.
I also note those who advocate an aggressive youth policy are also the first and loudest to scream when we finish on the bottom. Can't have it both ways. If you go youth then expect to finish near the bottom for a number of years until they develop, that why last year and this year I am not concerned by the patchy form. Fact is we are getting better, you can see it, I just wish people would recognise it, acknowledge it and give credit were it is due. Patience ,we will get there.

Agree with the balance, but our balance has already been shot as a result of our 90's policy of recycling players and with the draft penalties.

Kouta should retire at the end of the year so that we remember him at his peak, not some guy who ran around for a couple of seasons too long. If Lappin announced his retirement of his own accord, no one would bat an eyelid. If he gets another contract it should only be on a year-by-year basis.

As for Lance, any smart opposition coach will use his weaknesses to his teams advantage. Unless we play Lance as a spare man in defence that will always be the case. And that forces us into playing that way rather than being flexible.

At the end of the day it's a judgement call as to whether Lance's plusses outweigh his weaknesses. The way to manage that is to offer him a 2 year performance based contract on the minimum fixed contract (around $50,000ish IIRC) and then handsome match payments (Say $10,000 a senior match).

If Lance stays fit and in form, he has the capacity to earn nearly $600,000 over two years. If he's shot and can't play it only costs us $50k to pay him out at the end of next year. If he offers us something in the middle he'll be paid accordingly. I can't see him accepting that, but if it were my call it's how I'd handle it.

kaxsta · **Joined:** Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:55 pm **Posts:** 315

jimmae wrote:

kaxsta wrote:

jimmae wrote:

Endurance & strength training are not designed to 'burn' body fat per se. Anyone who's ever had a crack at generating a six-pack from just doing sit-ups would have learnt this the hard way.

So what can Lance do? Plenty, but his knee holds him back. You see the obvious solution would be loading him up with additional bike work, swimming & running throughout the year (particularly during the pre-season), but with the shape of his knee, it's not really possible.

I'm not an expert on this but I remember reading somewhere that strength training can assist with burning additional calories. Muscle needs more energy to maintain that fat does. I think that means you increase your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate -amount of energy needed to survive in a sedentary state.... I think) Also, I think you continue to burn calories for longer after doing resistance training than with cardio. A combination of strength training, cardio, and diet all need to be combined to see results...... which I'm sure Lance is aware of... :?:

Also, given that the condition is his knee, I would have thought that the pool would be ideal... even if he doesnt use his legs/knee he could keep his heart rate up to burn additional calories.

The pool is ideal in a simplistic sense of theory, ie. one is weightless and thus there is no pressure on the knee, but it is never that simple.

I did note that strength and endurance training do burn some fat, but not a great deal. Generally for 'fat burn' you sustain a moderate heart rate for a longer period, as opposed to cardio, which requires a more intense period of exercise to stress and strengthen cardiac muscles, as opposed to just burning energy.

Which form of resistance training are you referring to? There are two types that fall under this term, but sometimes people also refer to wind/weight resistance running (ie. the parachute running you may have seen Brett Lee do on the news a few years back, or Lance with the tyre).

Finally yes, exercise does generally increase your BMR slowly over a period of time, but the point being made is that Lance is up against it in that respect.

Fair enough. As I mentioned I'm not a expert on this my point being that you need to take a holistic approach including, weights, diet, cardio, etc.... but I concede that with the injury the horse may have bolted and this should have been done years ago.

I remember reading murphy saying in an interview (cant remember if it was this year or last year) how he ran 10 laps on x-mas morning knowing he was going to have a big x-mas lunch that day... that's the sort of attitude you need. If you do want to pig out or have a few drinks you need to work a little harder to compensate...

Mrs Caz · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:26 pm

i'm always amazed at how people come up with other posters opinions from 2- 4 years down the track......do you bookmark them or what?

verbs · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:36 pm

What's even funnier is reading that thread and how many people were suckered by Mark into believing he was serious. :lol:

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

Mrs Caz wrote:

i'm always amazed at how people come up with other posters opinions from 2- 4 years down the track......do you bookmark them or what?

In the link, the word 'bombshell' is highlighted. Whoever searched for it obviously remembered the thread and found it by using the word bombshell as a search word.

Mrs Caz · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:12 pm

Amazing......I can't remember a conversation I had last week.... :lol:

4thchicken · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am **Posts:** 3136

Synbad wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

welcomebackcattogio wrote:

BlueMark wrote:

Synners what did Kouta do to get back in your good books, a couple of years ago you were calling him a traitor.

The problem with delist, delist, delist, delist players is that we will never improve as a team, you need a blend of experience and youth, a balance. While I agree that Lappin, Kouta and Lance are nearing the end of thier careers I also, believe that they should be retired with grace and dignity. They have been great players for the club and at thier best breathtaking, thus deserving a measure of respect, to tear them down only demeans us as a club.
I also note those who advocate an aggressive youth policy are also the first and loudest to scream when we finish on the bottom. Can't have it both ways. If you go youth then expect to finish near the bottom for a number of years until they develop, that why last year and this year I am not concerned by the patchy form. Fact is we are getting better, you can see it, I just wish people would recognise it, acknowledge it and give credit were it is due. Patience ,we will get there.

Meh, 2 years ago (see link below) you said you would trade or delist everyone over 25, now you want us to respect them. At least Synbad is a little more consistent.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... =bombshell

Synbad consistent? :lol:

- I've heard it all now.

The thing is what we really should be doing is retiring murphy, giibs and walker. They add nothing to the team and are holding us back from our next flag - not to mention that stevens and the o'hailpin brothers!

Delist them! You know I'm right - I will be right... eventually...

Yes you will be right.. but youre abit ahead of yourself.. im not...
I dont have a problem waiting and sticking to a plan.. without the baggage that weighs us down.

I was just referring to your posting history - time will eventually prove you right with whitnall. Just as it will eventually prove you right with a few others (kouta, lappin etc). That you have been calling for the heads of certain older players up to 3-4 years ago only goes to show that you have no real idea.

Thing is you havent had a plan - You just go along with what seems popular at the time (pagan as coach/gameplans, collo as administrator, recycled players etc) and then when things dont go well make gross generalisations of change, the need to play youth and delisting older players.

Its all good though - history will prove your posts right... prove you visionary even... eventually... :wink:

ryan2000 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:17 pm

Synbad wrote:

ryan2000 wrote:

WOW!

If, as expected, Kouta & Lappin retire at the end of the year and we do infact delist/trade Whitnall....................that's an AWFULL lot of experience walking out the door. Close to 700games right there!

Who would be the next experienced player in our side of that happens?

Scotland? Thornton? Fev?..........................Not much else there really.

Lance had a pretty good year last year and had had some good & bad games this year. But if we have been playing him whilst injured then really the MC has a lot to answer for if not MORE than what Lance does.

Rest him, see how he goes then. But i wouldn't be delisting him.

Ryan.. you forget next year theyre one year older and blokes like simmo Waite Fish Waite Wiggo Scotland Stevens Bannister and even Walker are no longer kids.
Its a young team but they dont need their hands held by Lance and Kouta.. in fact they dont even do that so its no great loss.

I expect the club will still retain Kouta around the club...

Skinny might want to retire at the end of the season
Lance is shot!

Move on.. there is nothing to see here....

Yeah i totally forgot about Stevens. My Bad.

But on Simmo & Walker, etc, etc..................SURE, they will be one year older and approx 22 games better off but they still wont offer the experience of a Kouta, Lappin, Whitnall.

Stevens would be the only one.

Every team seems to have at least a couple of experienced 'leaders' in their team.

Young & upcoming teams like the Bulldogs & the Hawks still have leaders like Crawford & West etc, etc, to offer these kids assistance.

But then again, this game is not what it used to be so perhaps you could get away with it now days.

I'm personally hoping that Stevens, Walker, Murphy & Gibbs could end up being the new version of Braddley, Kouta, Ratten & Campo. And even thou i'm not the biggest Stevens fan, i would much rather his experience to back up the likes of Murphy & Gibbs...................................

New injury puts Whitnall's future in doubt

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