The last few pages have been a bit of a disgrace. Might issue some of my much-lauded lay advice.

I'd like to note to anyone who's dropped the word conditioning then referred to Lance's appearance has no idea of the true meaning of the word in reference to exercise. The word you're looking for is definition. Lance has poor muscle definition.

Endurance & strength training are not designed to 'burn' body fat per se. Anyone who's ever had a crack at generating a six-pack from just doing sit-ups would have learnt this the hard way.

In Lance's case he has to burn more body fat not only because every indiscretion has an impact, but more so because a lot of the energy he consumes in the form of food gets converted to fat stores, rather than get used up so that he may exercise and live life with the same vigour of the average athlete.

The same goes for any person with a low metabolic rate. On the other hand (if you don't like details, look away now), if Lance has a high absorption rate in his lower GIT, then he has to work against the stretch receptors in his stomach which tell him when he's full. A good option there would be a gastric band, but I would assume the club and Lance would have pursued with that option already if this were the case.

So what can Lance do? Plenty, but his knee holds him back. You see the obvious solution would be loading him up with additional bike work, swimming & running throughout the year (particularly during the pre-season), but with the shape of his knee, it's not really possible.

The best Lance can hope for is an injury-free pre-season where he can concentrate on the necessary training to slim down. I mean if dragging around a tyre worked last time, why wouldn't he do it again if he could?

No one's that lazy in regards to a good wage.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

To play him at CHB half-fit with a degenerative knee that doesn't allow him him to run, in a game where the ball in coming in at 100 miles an hours is probably as dumb coaching as you'd get. Just listening to David Schwartz on SEN. He said when he knees couldn't go any further his abilty to remotely run to a contest was so badly hampered to the point he just retired. A degenerative won't get any better and while I've always backed Lance I can't see how we could give him another contract, at least in a playing capacity, next year.

On another note, reading "Inside Football" today David Schwartz, in his column, said the whispers he heard from Carlton was that Denis Pagan was going to be asked to leave at the end of the year irrespective on how we finish. His whispers were that Voss is a real goer. Schwartz is actually a Pagan fan and found it a pity if he were to leave (I certainly don't.....I can't get him out the door quick enough!!!) and worried about Voss' lack of coaching experience (that worries me a little too).

Lance let's himself down by the example he sets to other players

Can't remember the exact details now, but wasn't Lance with 5 other players in Bendigo (Ballarat?) until 4am punting, claiming he didn't have a watch and didn't know the time? Wasn't Shaun Grigg and a couple of other new players with him, as well as Heath Scotland? He has also been known in previous years to take new recruits out to Crown Casino until all hours, to the point the families of these recuits have become very concerned. Nice way to teach rookies what's expected of them to become elite AFL footballers.

Injuries don't stop poor diet. Lance has come to the party in short bursts then it turns pear shaped. Agree about Cory McGrath, maybe not the most skilled footballer but set the example OFF the field. Unprepared bodies in football nowdays are more susceptible to injury. I'm afraid it appears Lance has run out of opportunities to redeem.

Decisions in this business must be made without emotion. Lance was horribly exposed by a very clever coach and disciplined team last Friday night, and I'm sure other teams would use this as a template. The club and coaching panel have finally realised the cons outweigh the pros. You could see the affect it had on every other Carlton player last Friday night.

_________________
17 4 10

Unfortunately for us Hawthorn got 4 first round picks for Thompson and Hay.

We would be lucky to get 4 last round picks for soem of our guys.

Look at Hawthorn come seasons end, they could offer their pick 1 and 2 and Mark Williams to West Coast and chase Judd hard. How good would they be then. Players would take reduced salaries because they would be in a club that was destined for finals glory.

_________________
Supporting the Blues No Matter What

We could offer 2 soggy weetbix and our last pick in the draft and have just as much chance of a trade. Get real people

Thompson, Everitt, Rawlings and Hay (he was shot anyway) went of their own free will. Don't think Vandenburg's going anywhere in a hurry either. They certainly haven't been worse off without them though but at the same time the nest lot of players were physically strong enough and ready enough to step up. That's the difference between there's and ours (plus they have a real coach). Alot of urs may not quite ready yet so I'm not sure yet whether I want to get rid of all of them. Not to mention the luck Hawthorn had with trading a couple of these guys. No-one will have that luck again.

I have a physiology background and you make some good points. Unfortunately with alot of people they tend to think in simplistic terms. They touch the surface with their thoughts but forget about the other metres and metres of ocean underneath the surface.

hawks also kept dixon, crawford, smith bought back croad recruited jacobs, guerra & gillham.. simon taylor for example is 26 y.o recruited from box hill hawks.
there is value in smart trading.. i agree we need to bite the bullet with some players.. but trading/sacking/benching lance is not one of them.

All that proves is they arent perfect but theyre doing their job with list management much better than we have been.
The proof is in the pudding....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I'm not an expert on this but I remember reading somewhere that strength training can assist with burning additional calories. Muscle needs more energy to maintain that fat does. I think that means you increase your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate -amount of energy needed to survive in a sedentary state.... I think) Also, I think you continue to burn calories for longer after doing resistance training than with cardio. A combination of strength training, cardio, and diet all need to be combined to see results...... which I'm sure Lance is aware of...

Also, given that the condition is his knee, I would have thought that the pool would be ideal... even if he doesnt use his legs/knee he could keep his heart rate up to burn additional calories.

People are pretending that the problems Lance is facing are cos of his knee.
His knee isnt allowing him to be fit and taunt and professional.
Lance was sent to a fat farm in his second year.. in his third year... by around 2000 he was eating Jenny Craig that the club organised..
Hes had weight issues all along.
His problem is he cant run and todays footy is about speed.

So it doesnt matter about the knee... he cant do it!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Just so I don't miss read what you said:

So are you saying that West Coast would not think twice about that deal if Judd actually wanted to return to Melbourne?

It is just an example, but at least it highlights the position Hawthorn now find themselves in. They could use Williams who has been missing most season and there first two picks to really entice West Coast if Judd wanted to leave.

Many clubs who have not bit the bullet would not even have the luxury to entertain anything like that.

_________________
Supporting the Blues No Matter What

The pool is ideal in a simplistic sense of theory, ie. one is weightless and thus there is no pressure on the knee, but it is never that simple.

I did note that strength and endurance training do burn some fat, but not a great deal. Generally for 'fat burn' you sustain a moderate heart rate for a longer period, as opposed to cardio, which requires a more intense period of exercise to stress and strengthen cardiac muscles, as opposed to just burning energy.

Which form of resistance training are you referring to? There are two types that fall under this term, but sometimes people also refer to wind/weight resistance running (ie. the parachute running you may have seen Brett Lee do on the news a few years back, or Lance with the tyre).

Finally yes, exercise does generally increase your BMR slowly over a period of time, but the point being made is that Lance is up against it in that respect.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Jimmae - you can frot yourself repeatedly over Basal Metabolic Rates but the only question that should be asked with regard to Lance's future career or otherwise is "Does he offer the club what it needs?" (insert own "...going forward" if you're a bogan).

For me the answer is no and any loyalty the club may have owed Lance went out the door when he didn't do everything in his power to prepare himself for life as a professional sportsman.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Oooooh.........

Basal Metabolic Rates..............i've heard their Fixed Term
is spectacular................!


kindest regards tommi































no..............?

_________________
that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

Synners what did Kouta do to get back in your good books, a couple of years ago you were calling him a traitor.

The problem with delist, delist, delist, delist players is that we will never improve as a team, you need a blend of experience and youth, a balance. While I agree that Lappin, Kouta and Lance are nearing the end of thier careers I also, believe that they should be retired with grace and dignity. They have been great players for the club and at thier best breathtaking, thus deserving a measure of respect, to tear them down only demeans us as a club.
I also note those who advocate an aggressive youth policy are also the first and loudest to scream when we finish on the bottom. Can't have it both ways. If you go youth then expect to finish near the bottom for a number of years until they develop, that why last year and this year I am not concerned by the patchy form. Fact is we are getting better, you can see it, I just wish people would recognise it, acknowledge it and give credit were it is due. Patience ,we will get there.

_________________
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Garbage.

SOME people might fit that description but don't try to paint everyone with the same brush in order to prop up your flimsy arguments.

I've been advocating a youth policy for years and have said all along that I don't give a damn about where we finish on the ladder providing we're showing signs of real development.

I don't think I'm alone there either.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Meh, 2 years ago (see link below) you said you would trade or delist everyone over 25, now you want us to respect them. At least Synbad is a little more consistent.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... =bombshell

Ouch

_________________
“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Lance has done very well out of the club and of recent times we have been carrying him.....he isnt fit enough for the modern game with or without a bung knee and the fat farm episodes were a farce for a supposed modern day athlete.

You have to take the sentiment out of this and treat it as business.....if Lance thinks he can continue to play at the required level then offer him a trade...if not offer him retirement..
My own personal belief is that he should not be re-signed to a new contract..if we can continue to carry players out of sentiment then we will not improve.
Only Lappin out of the three mentioned would warrant another year and I wouldnt be offering much in terms of money.

Appreciate the balanced list argument but I dont think Lance and the other players concerned are contributing enough to justify retaining them.
Its time we went with the likes of Kennedy, Bower, Hartlett etc and gave them the responsibility.....might mean we struggle for an extra year but so be it...

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen