Look theyre probably the some of the same blokes that diudnt give it to Kouta in 2000.
some of the same blokes that gave it to Corey
some of the same blokes that gave it to Teague over Skinny...
And some of the same blokes that brought you Ackland.. McLaren.. Saddington.. chambers... Longmuire.. Mott.. wanted Knobel...
Some of the same blokes that thought O'Reilly was a good idea...

Yep Lance was our best player last year...
Yep Lance captain....

You get the picture...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Problem was Port were CRAP!

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I see you watching me watching you.

We have two options

1) either make the hard decisions

or

2) the opposition will make the hard decisions for us.

ie - either ask Whitnall to rest/retire or the opposition will force it upon him by getting the match up where he is exposed.

There are no easy decisions with this situation.


Regarding 1991

When Parkin came back in 91- he saw a lot of old players that needed to be moved onto greener pastures. He made the tough decisions. In 2004-07 we continue to deny that we have to make the tough decisions. We procrastinate on decisions on Whitnall, Camporeale and others.

Either do it or the opposition will do it for us. There is no other outcome.

And i was censored for calling some one a moron

BTW i meet Lance the other day and asked him what DNA stood for-
his reply- National Dislexics Association. Have i spelt that right

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I see you watching me watching you.

Lance Whitnall has to find a dignified and gracious way to retire. I recognise his contributions, but the time has come for Lance to make way for a younger player.

This is necessary generational change - it should not be reisisted.

The pain of this and other changes are far less than the gains to Carlton in the near term.

However in making these changes, the affected players have to be treated with respect and dignity and their contibutions to Carlton properly recognised.

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My Blue Heaven

Yes Parkin turned a lot of players over - however we had core of half a dozen players who were out and out stars - and we were able to get Kouta as one of the last players out of our suburban zone - then we got Spalding and Williams through aggressive trading - and then we struck it lucky with - ex established players like Clape, Manton, Rice, Hogg and an astute pick up in Pearce (who by the way was picked out by the much over maligned Shane O'Sullivan).

We then tried to do this again through the mid to late 90s and we nearly fluked a flag in 99.

While this was going the rest of the competition was catching and passing us by using the Draft.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

The AFL is the most athletic and the toughest football competition in the world. (Toughest in terms of what is required to compete)

If Lance was a top soccer player in the English soccer league he could be hidden away as the game has less than half the athletic needs of AFL, is played on a far smaller field, and has far less physical contact than the AFL.

But in the AFL there is no way you can hide an unfit/ injured player for any lengthy period of time. Anthony Rocca is next cab off the rank and he will be exposed.

The bell tolls for those that are exposed. It truly is the survival of the fittest in this league.

No worries mate you know it all.
Hang on a second at election time weren't you the one on this site who was pumping up Smorgon and promoting that we shouldnt change the board???

oh look the sociopath is still stalking.

perhaps you dont comprehend english very well.

Winnie Reds are stronger

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I see you watching me watching you.

red is a commie colour.
you know that disgusting red mayne logo under collo....carlton under communism.

what F@#$@# up coach plays an injured non-athletic player out of position in the backline on a taller, more athletically gifted opponent? Whitnall should have either been rested or played deep forward.

What would your response be if say bentick had carried knee problems for 5 weeks or so and pagan decided to play him on Judd?

Edit: perhaps a better example would be something like having bentick play on buddy franklin given that bentick would then have to play out of position

if both were not carrying any injury and played in their natural positions I'd take whitnall in a heartbeat - and by a very large margin. One player though not athletically gifted and with limited mobility has a proven capacity to kick and create goals consistently. The other despite some good form in the ants last year has proven nothing and a reputation of not being able to stick with his man in defence.

But somehow I think you are comparing an injured player with the potential of a young uninjured one. In which case, you may as well compare nick stevens carrying a neck injury with any random uninjured 2nd round draftee. It would be a no brainer to take the draftee.

Whist I respect your posts, surely you are not implying that you never get anything from the club in return? Its a 2 way street.

Whilst its impossible to place a monetary value on the emotions that the club has provided us as supporters over the years (particularly the highs) I imagine that for many the value would be quite high. We wouldnt be so passionate about the club otherwise.

How does that relate to whitnall 'charging' the club for his services? - Over his career whitnall has made a significant contribution at the club, he has invested a significant amount of time at the club, and arguably at great cost to himself (injuries). Yes all footballers make the same sacrifices but my question to you and others, would be what value do you place on an intangible like a severe injury?

How much would you want someone to pay you for the inconvenience, pain and discomfort of say having your collarbone smashed? of having multiple knee injuries that in all likelihood will affect you for the majority of your life?

Would you for example allow someone to smash your collarbone for $100k? 200k perhaps? more? less even? (assuming you are unable to work in an occupation for the period of recovery/rehab and they have no liabilty for your injury).

I get the picture - the guys criticising whitnall are the same guys that lauded
the signing of pagan
the drafting of mick martyn
the recruitment of mott, longmuire, harford etc

that
claimed kenna was a better player than davey
claimed we had certain players were locks to come to the club via trades/PSD
etc etc etc

Yup - I get the picture very much

yeah if Lance was skinny.. he could run.. jump and was taller youd take Lance...

But that is lalaland cos he isnt..

As for Stevens... modern day footballer who can play the game today.. we havent been carrying him...

Apples and bananas....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

So that would mean our most senior players as
stevens (neck injury, risk of reccurance, questions on recovery)
Fev (brain explosions, still massive question marks on application, temperment and general on field intelligence)
ackland (non existent presence on field)
houlahan (which most of you guys want to get rid of anyway)
wiggins (up till3 weeks ago was on 95% of peoples 'get rid of lists)
bannister (up till3 weeks ago was on 95% of peoples 'get rid of lists)
saddington (on most peoples get rid of lists)
setanta (minimal experience)

Assuming of course we delist mclaren and teague. Ackland wont be in the team next year, and I imagine both bannister and saddington might struggle to be retained as well.

If people had their way, next year our seasoned bodies woul be Stevens, Fev, setanta and then nothing until walker/fisher/thornton etc. think about it.

We actually NEED at least 2 of lance, kouta and lappin to go on in 2008 and be in or around the edges of the first 18 for the long term benefit of the kids (in addition to wiggins and houlahan).

I have been a massive fan of Whitnall over the years, but if he is injured he shouldn't be playing. If the injury is going to hold him back in the future then he should do the right thing and retire.

As should Kouta, these guys are holding us back and if they were showing good leadership then I think there would be a strong case to keep them on but they arent even showing that at the moment. Some of Koutas efforts and body language were disgraceful on Friday night. I know this can be said for 90 per cent of the team and its tough when you're getting your pants pulled down. But here is a guy who should know better and is more equipped than anyone else in our side to be positive and lead and keep the young blokes up when we are 60 or 80 or 100 points down just by setting the example. The time has come.

I said I would take lance in the team if he wasnt carrying an injury and played forward - ahead of the more athletic bower. Its fairly simple really -
Whitnall injured - should be rested
Whitnall fit - should be played in the forward line

Rather than blaming the player how about you have a good look at the coaching. Would you put an injured player on someone who is younger, taller, quicker and generally more athletic? That coaching masterstroke was akin to putting an older injured greg williams in the backline against ricciuto


And we havent carried stevens? - bloody oath we have. He tends to be less accountable for his man and shows less defensive pressure than houlahan. It would be an interesting exercise to look at goals against and tackles laid comparison between stevens and houlahan.

That;s a big call, Chicken.
Stevens and Houlihan are very different and Stevens has had much more consistent defensive input than Houlihan. The big difference is that Stevens has a role to play as the attacking midfielder every week and Houlihan has had toplay back/fwd/mid when he should be kept well away from defence. Goals agains isn't a fair statistic to use. Tackles, maybe.
If you are suggesting Houlihan is a better player than Stevens at the moment, I think you are mistaken. If you are not, sorry, I have missed your point.
By the way, I am a big fan of Houlihan as his detractors will know. When we are in the top four, he will be one of the ones who shines.
When we are in the top four, Stevens will be just one member of a gun midfield, not just the one experienced mid we have. We haven't carried him to date and we won't be carrying him then.
He should have been Captain.
Lance might be able to play forward as you suggest but only from the square where he doesn't have to run and where his man can't afford to run off him. That means we have to align the whole team to suit the position that suits Lance.
This is a team sport and the more people we have who can play in different positions, the better. Lance used to be able to do it but not any more. He has been a great player for us but it is time.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)