At the start of the season, we knew that we had a number of issues. We lacked a ruckman, and we needed a FB and a CHB.

The ruck hasn't been solved, and is hurting us. Signing Ackland for 3 years, as most of us said at the time, smacked of desperation, and hasn't paid any dividend. Promoting Aisake on the back of a handfull of senior Bullants games , where he has been named in the best a couple of times, is not something I would be advocating. Just let him play in the Twos and learn the game.

Pre-season, we had Setanta at FB and Waite at CHB. It looked like we had the skeleton of a new backline, that even though it would take some time, might prove to be a strong defense in time. Neither of those are playing down back any more, and we are back to square one. Saddington clearly isn't the answer.

So where do we find key backs? Waite is playing too well up forward to move him. Hartlett and Austin have the size required, but Austin is no where near it yet, and Hartlett has been playing forward. For Carlton's sake, he should be playing in the backline for the 'Ants, but for whatever reason (lack of communication, Bullants' interests first) it hasn't been happening.

Perhaps they could try Setanta at CHB. Different role than FB which might suit his athleticism and allow him some freedom to be mobile.

Or perhaps we just decide that Thornton is the best for CHB, and stick with him there.

Whatever, there are still 3 massive holes that need to be filled.

In addition, as has been noted previously, the set up forward is killing us. All those talls, with no real crumbers, means no forward line pressure. Then when the bombs come in and the ball hits the ground, it is run out with ease, and the opposition invariably scores. Our forward line is our biggest defensive issue at the moment.

And the lack of system going into the forward 50 is a shameful indictment of where our coach is at. It is Under 14s stuff to get the ball and bomb it long. Pagan says that we can't seem to play well any other way, but if he is unable to get players such as Murphy, Carazzo, Scotland, Walker etc to kick the ball to Fevola, Waite and Fisher with any system, with players leading and with a system up forward, then he should resign right now. Those are talented players, and it is up to the coach to get the best out of talented players. To say that the only way they can function is to bomb long and hope for the best is a joke. To then not even have small, quick, crumbing forwards at ground level who can crumb the ball or apply forward pressure to keep the ball in the forward line is nothing short of inept.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Guys lets show some restraint from 1 very bad game.
We need to develop a couple of good ruckmen, Aisake should be promoted to ruck at AFL level, I know he is not really ready, but I think that Aintland needs to be demoted not from 1st ruck, but back to the Aints to set a standard. If he is in a 3 year deal then we need to develop him to play for three years and at the moment he is very, very soft; it's obvious he will not harden up unless someone sets a standard and although Carlos is trying very hard and sets a standard as far as agression and passion is concerned he is not a future ruckman and Aintland still views him as a FB player that will never be a ruckman so his spot is still safe. Aisake will put pressure on him as he is being groomed as a ruckman and with cloke coming back next year, pressure to play at AFL level will force him to step up to ship out. We also need an injection of pace, so I would promote Benji and give him 4 games irrispective of how he plays to see if he can make an impression.

Showing restraint will not get kids games under pagan. We need to show the exact opposite in my opinion. I can wear a flogging every fourth game we play if it is kids playing it not hacks.

We played Hawthorn; we'd do well to look at how they've turned around their list in a few short years. We just don't seem to have the balls to make hard calls.

IMO more restraint is the last thing we need during the opportunity the next 11 games presents.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

You can't just play kids cause you want to play kids when they are clearly not ready. These guys are struggling in the Bullants, you can't just put them in cause you want to play kids. The only ones for next week who are near selection are Kennedy and maybe Hartlett. Grigg if he playes well in the next couple of weeks.

Compare this to Hawthorn, from this morning's Sun...



http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 95,00.html

And they can't get a game...

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Agree with Franks initial comments......

re: Bentick...dont get why people are bagging him.....Mitchell did it the hard way early and got towelled by some decent opponents but learned form it and got better cos he has the right attitude. I wouldnt waste time on some players but I think AB is a good learner and can become better.
Give him a winning ruck and then judge him...hard task to stop Mitchell and be our main extractor and having to tackle everyone elses opponents cos your teammates cant...or wont...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

What happens? We play kids and lose? So we're better sticking with the tried and known than ever give the opportunity to those who we haven't tried - regardless of what they do in the Ants.

We recruited them to play AFL - let's give them at least 11 games to see how they go.

The difference between Hawthorn not playing Dowler etc is that they're actually playing well and can afford to carry them through the VFL - can we realistically say the same?

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Hawks are a great example ... cos they were in our position a few years ago, and bit the bullet.

They have a proactive coach, who understands the modern game. He has played kids, taught them how to play modern football, and they respond to him.

Geelong, St Kilda, West Coast and Hawthorn all beat us the same way ... runnig hard all over the ground, and exploiting the fact that our players do not know how to defend and counter rebound football. Our play is undisciplined, our players unsure against hard running opponents.

Is it any wonder when we have no hard running leaders, except Stevens?

We need to play our kids, but we do no have the coach who can develop them, since much about the way we play has not changed in 4.5 years.

Hawthorn played their kids when the kids' form in the VFL warranted them being selected.

If a kid can't get into the play at VFL level, what chance has he got at AFL level? Not only will he likely get lost in the play, but it can also damage them irreperably, giving 11 games to someone who is out of his death.

I am all for playing kids, WHEN their form at the level below suggests they are ready for it.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Its really about 2008 now and getting games into players that the club thinks will take you forward in the future even if there is some doubt in their present form -its also about giving supporters hope by bringing in new guys - its also about finding out about the new guys and seeing whether they have the character to dig deep when they face adversity rather than capitulate like a lot did on Saturday night.

Who knows one of them may have a debut like walker did in his first game
Still reckon Setanta benefitted from his game in 2005 even though he wasnt ready at that stage

Very well said. Who follows the Ants to some extent and can give us a bit of an update? Anything at all? All I see is results in the paper, and the 'Best' section. Then again, you gotta wonder about Ackland and Whitnall...drop them BOTH for injury reasons, then I'd get a laugh out of them feebly disguising Ackland's drop for his 'broken nose'.

Sieg
I'm not sure what irreperable damage could be done by playing football at the highest level.

In my mind I could only imagine you'd learn and grow. Or maybe even take to it like a fish to water.

And what if they don't? Do we need to wait to find that out?

Having said that, I'd kill for a novice coach at the moment. Or just a coach.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

It's not even so much the damage that's caused WBY, it's also how much they get set back in their development. So much was made of Hawthorn in the 80s, and how Tuck, Langford etc benefited from having decent time in the twos. Now the comparison is being made with Thorp, Dowler, Muston, Kennedy etc, who are apparently ripping it up in the twos. They will develop so much quicker because of it.

I just can't help but think that Aisake, Benji, Hampson, Austin etc are going to develop a whole lot quicker by getting a good number of games under their belts with the Bullants, than they will by being thrown into the AFL when they haven't even stood out at VFL level.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

I'm coming from the perspective that we are wasting development time again this year - just as we have for the past four or five years.

You're right about players like Austin who is too light and learning but Anderson, Grigg, Edwards, Hartlett, Benjamin, Aisake, even Jacobs and maybe Hampson for a game or two - that would be invaluable to their football development IMO (if they're on the field of course and not the pine)

The hawks youngsters are knocking on the oak door of a winning list - ours aren't getting a chance to have a go in a team made of papier mache.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Could not have said it better, awesome post

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1. Walker,
2. Menzel,
3. Murphy,
4. Gibbs,
5. Judd.

Have avoided posting anything following THAT game on Friday night.

Me thinks however that no changes will be made as DP will want ALL the players to atone for their non-perfomance on Friday.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Freudian slip?

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)