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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1651
camelboy wrote:
Bentick can play, but he had a shocker tonight and hasn't been at his best for the last two weeks. .......


AB cannot play the modern style >>>>> he is too flower SLOW!!!!

Mitchell is not the Road Runner but he tore AB a new one. Blackwell better also get a wriggle on or he'll be out the door as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:29 am 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:50 am
Posts: 3192
Location: Whistler
Rod Waddell wrote:
camelboy wrote:
Bentick can play, but he had a shocker tonight and hasn't been at his best for the last two weeks. .......


AB cannot play the modern style >>>>> he is too flower SLOW!!!!

Mitchell is not the Road Runner but he tore AB a new one. Blackwell better also get a wriggle on or he'll be out the door as well.


So just to put things in perspective ...
which Carlton players were not ripped a new one?


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 Post subject: Re: A Plan B perhaps?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:25 am 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:43 pm
Posts: 322
chelodina wrote:
Dear Denis,

Thankyou for allowing our team to play entertaining football. I have enjoyed watching most games and our wins have been spectaclular. However, I feel the next stage of our development should involve trying to stop teams kicking goals. We have clearly shown that we have the capability of kicking many goals but we have no plan B and clearly cannot stop teams kicking multiple goals on us.

You can say that we are young and developing; True, but this has been a problem since you have been at the club. Remember all those recycled players that you brought to the club? even in 2004 when we won 10 games, we consistently lost games by 100 points or more. So this is a consistent aspect of your coaching and you have done little so far to address our defensive liabilities.

Last year we had little plan; this year we have Plan A (all out attack); this last half of the season, we need to be more than single plan team and develop some defensive skills.

Sincerely,
Chelodina.

P.S Saddington and Bentick can not play.


1/2 the time our players struggle to execute Plan A, how do we expect them to get Plan B right.

time for the players to stand up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:32 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25463
Location: Bondi Beach
chelodina wrote in his letter to Pagan

Quote:
You can say that we are young and developing; True, but this has been a problem since you have been at the club. Remember all those recycled players that you brought to the club? even in 2004 when we won 10 games, we consistently lost games by 100 points or more. So this is a consistent aspect of your coaching and you have done little so far to address our defensive liabilities.

Last year we had little plan; this year we have Plan A (all out attack); this last half of the season, we need to be more than single plan team and develop some defensive skills.


I think you're dreaming if you think Pagan can turn this ship. Yes the ship can be turned around, but Pagan has proven to me that he can't do it; someone else with a good grip on player development and modern game plans can, will and should be given the opportunity.

The main point made by chelodina is that 100 point defeats is a common occurence under Pagan, and littlle has been done to address the problem with defensive skills. Correct. I don't believe there is any evidence that he is capable of correcting the problems he has created as the master of the team's destiny.

I have defended Pagan to the hilt till last Friday night...I don't think he can do it in a reasonable time frame,(and that's 3 years) and I believe his excuse of inexperience for 100 point defeats or the kids got ahead of themselves, is unacceptable when you look at the time the players selected last Friday have had to learn some basic defensive skills.

Lets look at the players from Friday night. I am looking for players who haven't had enough time to develop a defensive mechanism required to play the modern game.

Inherited players from Parkin & Brittain era (exceed 5 seasons experience)

Experienced: Fevola, Kouta, Whitnall, Lappin, Houlihan, Wiggins,
Kids: Thornton

Players listed 5 seasons ago (Pagan's first year as coach)

Kids: Waite (F/S) Fisher, Simpson

Players listed 4 seasons ago (Pagan's 2nd year as coach)

Experienced: Scotland, Stevens
Kids: Walker (#2 draft) Carrazzo, Bentick, Setanta

Players listed 3 seasons ago (Pagan's 3rd year as coach)

Kids: Russell (#9 draft) Hartlett (#20 draft) Blackwell (F/S) Bannister

Players listed 2 seasons ago (Pagan's 4th year as coach)

Experienced: Saddington
Kids: Murphy (#1 draft)

Players listed in 2007 (Pagan's 5th years as coach):

Experienced: Ackland
Kids: Gibbs (#1 draft)

So why do these players not have a defensive mindset, or knowledge of defensive skills?

They are either highly regarded kids from the draft ( hi end, ready made quality kids) or they are at least in their 3rd season or have up to 15 seasons of experience. So, imo, there's really no excuse for a lack of experience accounting for 100 point or 10 goal drubbings in 2007. :roll:

Yeah, the attacking style of play is enjoyable to watch and the kids will learn a lot from that, but surely there has to be some accountability drummed into players as far as defense is concerned over that time. Surely.

I believe that the root of our problems are/ maybe addressed by all or some of the following reasons:

The coach has failed to adequately develop the kids under his guidance. :oops:

The coach has failed with communication with the players. :oops:

The coach doesn't have a game plan for them to follow, and the current plan is one dimensional or ad hoc. :oops:

The coach isn't capable of developing the kids with the requirements of modern footy. :oops:

The coach has failed to communicate his plans and development exercises with his skills and reserves coaches. :oops:

The recycled players strategy has failed to secure players that can play the modern game, given we have delisted 7 Pagan selected recycled players and 7 kids; that's 14 wasted selections over the last 4 seasons, under Pagan's supervision. :oops:

WTF?

The evidence is clear to me...I have no time for Pagan excuses/cliches anymore because they are one sided (the blame game), and he fails to convince me that he has learned from his many mistakes (never blames himself or highlights HIS inadequacies), so why would I believe that he has improved? No evidence. :!:

I'm sorry, but for me, with Pagan at the helm, is going to give us much of the same....drubbings evry 4 games for how long :?: ...a long time yet.

I'm convinced that the Pagan-Carlton partnership is doomed to failure, and there's no reason to continue with this partnership. Tanking wont help him because his record is such that he fails to develop players. :?

Retaining Fevola, and teaching a #2 draft defensive skills (Walker) over a 5 year reign as his achievements is pitiful to say the least. :oops:

Sorry to say this, but it's over Pagan. You've lost me. I'm an ex Pagan fan after 5 years of support. :roll:

Prove me that I'm wrong with my situational analysis.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:35 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am
Posts: 23123
bondi, Waite was on the list in 2002, he just never played a senior game that year.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:03 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25463
Location: Bondi Beach
Cheers Jars, I knew you would come good.

I have a chart of the Trades and Draftees, by coach and broken down to experience and kids, highlighting the result of these choices ( under listed and delisted), and I wanted to run it past you to make sure the info was OK...there were some I was making up.

I've got it on excel and had no success in trying to load it into the forum (any idea?...some kind of special paste?...?)

Anyway, thanks for the update...that's right Waite was the only kid not to be given an opportunity. I'm sure you get my drift though, with Waite being drafted in 2002 makes it more scathing for Pagan's ability.

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