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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:46 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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chubbyruss wrote:
Mark J wrote:
I've become a swinging coach voter :?
Firstly i wanted anyone but DP,as indicated elsewhere in this thread.Voss,Lethal,Roos etc all would suffice,BUT while we are playing such attacking footy i'm prepared to go for a ride on the DP bandwagon.
Win, lose or draw ,it's better than the crap the saints are playing.
I'm prepared to give DP the rest of the year-maybe "IT'S BLUE SKIES AHEAD FOR THE CARLTON FOOTBALL CLUB" :-D :-D


One swallow does't make a summer :wink:


What about two swallows? :-D :-D

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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African or European?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Asian :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:48 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Andrew Swallow?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:03 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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FYI everybody, I reckon a few more performances like last weeks and there won't be any need to go looking for a new coach...

VIVA LA PAGAN! :P


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:07 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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SparkyBlue wrote:
FYI everybody, I reckon a few more performances like last weeks and there won't be any need to go looking for a new coach...

VIVA LA PAGAN! :P


Isn't it Vive Le PAgan ? ...or is there something we should know?

Would he get into the Robert Peel like Twinky Winky???

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:33 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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billc3 wrote:
SparkyBlue wrote:
FYI everybody, I reckon a few more performances like last weeks and there won't be any need to go looking for a new coach...

VIVA LA PAGAN! :P


Isn't it Vive Le PAgan ? ...or is there something we should know?

Would he get into the Robert Peel like Twinky Winky???


A faux pas on my part :oops:

As for getting into the Peel, I'm not exactly knowledgable on their door policy. billc, is there some WE should know?! :P

That said, the abovementioned would put a new spin on how Pagan picks his 'favorites' at the club!


Honestly though, the boys get the credit for lasts weeks effort, but on the other hand Pagan didn't do anything to blow (no pun intended - seriously) the match.

Anyways, I'll just shut up now.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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SparkyBlue wrote:
billc3 wrote:
SparkyBlue wrote:
FYI everybody, I reckon a few more performances like last weeks and there won't be any need to go looking for a new coach...

VIVA LA PAGAN! :P


Isn't it Vive Le PAgan ? ...or is there something we should know?

Would he get into the Robert Peel like Twinky Winky???


A faux pas on my part :oops:

As for getting into the Peel, I'm not exactly knowledgable on their door policy. billc, is there some WE should know?! :P

That said, the abovementioned would put a new spin on how Pagan picks his 'favorites' at the club!


Honestly though, the boys get the credit for lasts weeks effort, but on the other hand Pagan didn't do anything to blow (no pun intended - seriously) the match.

Anyways, I'll just shut up now.


The Chaser last night had a classic sketch about gettiong into the Peel....and settling the argument once and for all if Tinky Winky is a gay Teletubby...so they sent Tinky Winky to the Peel to get past the doorman....and he/she/it got in!

As for my own experiences ...that's another story...lived in Collingwood about 20 years ago and met some people at the Peel straight after work. ....needless to say that the thrash bands at the Tote and the bikies at the Bendigo all seemed quite ok to hang out with after that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Donstuie wrote:
African or European?

:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:52 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I just heard a small bit of the sports report on Ch 10, and they said that Carlton had been talking to Paul Roos. They also said that he wasn't interested in a Melbourne club at all, unfortunately.

Can anyone say whether this is true, or mere speculation and gossip?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:59 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
I just heard a small bit of the sports report on Ch 10, and they said that Carlton had been talking to Paul Roos. They also said that he wasn't interested in a Melbourne club at all, unfortunately.

Can anyone say whether this is true, or mere speculation and gossip?


Roos will never leave Sydney....I reckon he will coach there for next decade....they live him up there.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:57 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
I just heard a small bit of the sports report on Ch 10, and they said that Carlton had been talking to Paul Roos. They also said that he wasn't interested in a Melbourne club at all, unfortunately.

Can anyone say whether this is true, or mere speculation and gossip?
Validates a number of similar radio reports over the last month or so. Unless there is a miraculous change in our fortunes Denis is gone.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:59 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Mark J wrote:
I've become a swinging coach voter :?
Firstly i wanted anyone but DP,as indicated elsewhere in this thread.Voss,Lethal,Roos etc all would suffice,BUT while we are playing such attacking footy i'm prepared to go for a ride on the DP bandwagon.
Win, lose or draw ,it's better than the crap the saints are playing.
I'm prepared to give DP the rest of the year-maybe "IT'S BLUE SKIES AHEAD FOR THE CARLTON FOOTBALL CLUB" :-D :-D
All this attacking footy is great (it is exciting to watch) but we also lost 6 in a row. Interesting to see if Denis makes the adjustment to the game plan against a side like the Swans, who, in form of course, will cut us up if we get too far ahead of the contest as happens in shoot-out football. Hate to see the 9 on 9 stuff in our forward 50 as happened against a similar side like St.Kilda. They killed us on the rebound as we had hardly anyone behind the ball.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:00 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The Roos rumour got a guernsey a few pages back. 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:47 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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The Roos story is a dud.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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camelboy wrote:
The Roos rumour got a guernsey a few pages back. 8)


Shows you how much importance I place in this thread...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:06 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:28 am
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You must be getting a bit worried right now, Jim.

I wouldn't doubt that Pratt has feelers out. And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's sounded out Roos and Worsfold. His obligation is to bring the best people to the club, and the fact that Pagan is contracted for next year is only of minor relevance. If he can lure either Roos or Worsfold to the club, then I'd salute him.

But my concern would be whether the potential replacement is clearly better than Pagan. And it seems that Pratt is definitely of the same view. His oft-cited comment that he doesn't want the best available person for a job because anyone who's available is not the best person for the job suggests he wouldn't look much further than the cream of the existing coaches. If he can't lure Roos or Worsfold, he might stop there.

It is by no means clear that the other coaches in the AFL would be clearly better for us. Maybe Eade or Malthouse might interest Pratt, but they seem pretty secure in their current positions. Daniher might well be interested in other offers, but is his record good enough?

Unless things turn around quickly for Lyon, his difficulties might scare a number clubs off appointing assistant coaches as senior coaches. The charge against Voss is a timely reminder of the risks associated with younger coaches. Imagine Voss dealing with Fev or others for getting involved in incidents at nightspots. Of course, if Voss is acquitted that would undo any concerns about him, but the risk associated with youth would still remain.

But the other side of things is that Pagan may well perform well enough to shut out other candidates.

Already, he has been impressive in the media. He has been accommodating with the media and his demeanour has been extremely relaxed and reassuring. Even in the midst of the 6 game losing-streak, this didn't waver. A few have wondered why the 6 straight losses didn't result in the press applying the blowtorch to him, and one of the answers is that he has been so available and cooperative with the media. No suggestions of him paying out on journos. That sort of performance must win him points with Pratt and make the club more marketable.

Then there is the style of game we're playing. Let's not ignore the influence on fans and sponsors. Should we improve our ladder position towards the end of the year while continuing to play the same sort of footy, I'd imagine that Channels 7 and 9 and the AFL will be keen to air our games in prime time. That will attract greater sponsorship.

The AFL's desire to produce more attractive footy also promises that rules and interpretations will continue to play into Pagan's hands. The move against chopping hands and pushing in the back should benefit us long-term given our preponderance of tall and athletic forwards and the pressure created by quick entries into F50. The talk of changes to the interchange bench also would help us by making it harder for other sides to press back and fatigued midfielders will find it harder to maintain possession as their skills fade.

The improved performances of Geelong and the Kangaroos also gives Pagan's game plan much more currency. If the possession-based or flooding football sides had continued to dominate this year, Pagan's position may have become untenable. But Roos, Eade, Lyon and Craig are not faring well at the moment.

Then we have the way in which the football department is working at the moment. IMO, it is working really well. The players are happy with the game style, and why wouldn't they be? What player wouldn't love to go man-on-man with instructions to concentrate on winning the duel? The assistants seem to be working well under Pagan, and there's a good level of delegation. The youngsters are being given experience in an orderly and appropriate fashion. Suggestions of player dissent have subsided, if not disappeared.

But all of this depends on how things develop. If we lose on Saturday, the knives will be out for Pagan again, no doubt. But if we win between 8-10 for the year while losing honourably, Pratt may well think it's hard to justify paying Pagan out and taking a risk on someone else.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:28 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Warby wrote:
The Roos story is a dud.


Its highly unlikely, but any rumor thats given a mention by Josh Kaplan was some basis for consideration.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
camelboy wrote:
The Roos rumour got a guernsey a few pages back. 8)


Shows you how much importance I place in this thread...


Got another airing, along with $1M salary, on Fox AFL Teams tonight.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:49 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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Indie wrote:
You must be getting a bit worried right now, Jim.

I wouldn't doubt that Pratt has feelers out. And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's sounded out Roos and Worsfold. His obligation is to bring the best people to the club, and the fact that Pagan is contracted for next year is only of minor relevance. If he can lure either Roos or Worsfold to the club, then I'd salute him.

But my concern would be whether the potential replacement is clearly better than Pagan. And it seems that Pratt is definitely of the same view. His oft-cited comment that he doesn't want the best available person for a job because anyone who's available is not the best person for the job suggests he wouldn't look much further than the cream of the existing coaches. If he can't lure Roos or Worsfold, he might stop there.

It is by no means clear that the other coaches in the AFL would be clearly better for us. Maybe Eade or Malthouse might interest Pratt, but they seem pretty secure in their current positions. Daniher might well be interested in other offers, but is his record good enough?

Unless things turn around quickly for Lyon, his difficulties might scare a number clubs off appointing assistant coaches as senior coaches. The charge against Voss is a timely reminder of the risks associated with younger coaches. Imagine Voss dealing with Fev or others for getting involved in incidents at nightspots. Of course, if Voss is acquitted that would undo any concerns about him, but the risk associated with youth would still remain.

But the other side of things is that Pagan may well perform well enough to shut out other candidates.

Already, he has been impressive in the media. He has been accommodating with the media and his demeanour has been extremely relaxed and reassuring. Even in the midst of the 6 game losing-streak, this didn't waver. A few have wondered why the 6 straight losses didn't result in the press applying the blowtorch to him, and one of the answers is that he has been so available and cooperative with the media. No suggestions of him paying out on journos. That sort of performance must win him points with Pratt and make the club more marketable.

Then there is the style of game we're playing. Let's not ignore the influence on fans and sponsors. Should we improve our ladder position towards the end of the year while continuing to play the same sort of footy, I'd imagine that Channels 7 and 9 and the AFL will be keen to air our games in prime time. That will attract greater sponsorship.

The AFL's desire to produce more attractive footy also promises that rules and interpretations will continue to play into Pagan's hands. The move against chopping hands and pushing in the back should benefit us long-term given our preponderance of tall and athletic forwards and the pressure created by quick entries into F50. The talk of changes to the interchange bench also would help us by making it harder for other sides to press back and fatigued midfielders will find it harder to maintain possession as their skills fade.

The improved performances of Geelong and the Kangaroos also gives Pagan's game plan much more currency. If the possession-based or flooding football sides had continued to dominate this year, Pagan's position may have become untenable. But Roos, Eade, Lyon and Craig are not faring well at the moment.

Then we have the way in which the football department is working at the moment. IMO, it is working really well. The players are happy with the game style, and why wouldn't they be? What player wouldn't love to go man-on-man with instructions to concentrate on winning the duel? The assistants seem to be working well under Pagan, and there's a good level of delegation. The youngsters are being given experience in an orderly and appropriate fashion. Suggestions of player dissent have subsided, if not disappeared.

But all of this depends on how things develop. If we lose on Saturday, the knives will be out for Pagan again, no doubt. But if we win between 8-10 for the year while losing honourably, Pratt may well think it's hard to justify paying Pagan out and taking a risk on someone else.
I'm guessing the players dissent hasn't disappeared. We're 3-7, 10 from the last 54 since 2005 and come off 6 successive losses. So don't get too excited yet, we're on one in a row. So it's safe to say I'm not too worried yet. Not that I'd be worried by success anyway. I'd probably get pretty excited.

As for the game plan, as exciting as it is, shoot-out football NEVER wins flags. There's way too much pressure on the ball carrier for it to succeed. Shoot out football is unaccountable football. That's why the opposition kick big scores too. Look at our "against", it's by far the worst in the AFL, even though we're the 3rd or 4th highest scoring team. As players get ahead of the ball, quickly and in numbers it leaves you exposed at the back if you cough it up, as you would be under the pressure of a final. Any AFL coach will tell you that. It's exciting to watch but not always that productive. That was well demonstrated in the St.Kilda game when Pagan couldn't adjust at all. That was one terrible coaching performance. No plan B. Pagan got torn a new one by a rookie coach and was castigaed for it on the ABC. Parko nearly burst a jugular and Jarrod Molloy was adamant that pagan wa snot the man to take us forward and develop us.

As we're not going to be in the finals, in some ways it's not a bad way to develop youngsters and it allows them to play with natural skill and flair in open spaces. Maske it easier to use the ball and find targets. Be interesting to see though how long before the opposition cottons on to it and try to close us down. It'll come, and can Pagan adjust? I prefer we take just one step back and be a little more accountable as youngsters have to learn to develop their game both ways. I'd be happier with a 16 goal to 14 or 17 goal to 15 game where we are still attacking but slightly more accountable. If the Swans are in form they could cuts us up if we don't adjust.


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