As a draftee Bryan is here for 2 years, that is unless he wants to be traded!

I am all for throwing him in to see what he has got but the bottom line is that having selected him,we have him for next year as well!

7d, that rule only applies to those from the Under 18's competition. Bryan may or may not have a 2 year contract but I was under the impression that there was no minimum contract term requirement for such a recruit.

MM - Do you really think that Goddard and Wells and whoever else we missed out on would make that big a difference to this side on other forums they are saying what a dud draft 2002 was. I just think the loss of draft picks and the so called poor list is a cop out. I thought last year when we won 10 games that Carlton were saying to the AFL public "up yours". This year we have just rolled over and taken it up the clacker. So what if we are not the most talented bunch who gives a shit. I just want them to go out and have a dip. If win or lose it doesn't matter. But to look at the side in the first and 3rd quarters it appeared they were not having a go

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really disagree Sydney. I know some say we're playing without heart but some of the guys out there are busting a gut, and we just aren't good enough. French, Kouta, Stevens, Wiggins, Thornton, Carrots, Walker, Sporn when he is out there, AB, Simmo, Teague... you know these guys are trying as hard as they can.

i think you're confusing lack of effort for overall lack of skill and 'polish', i really do. i dont doubt their efforts, not at all.

besides, if i'm wrong, and we actually get some highly skilled players from coming last, and everyone starts putting the effort in that you think is lacking, and we win a premiership, i'll be happy.

I did say appeared Molsey - Remember I watching this through a TV screen you don't see the whole picture through the TV

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They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Exactly, who said that he had not been performing. In every Bullies game I´ve seen he has been a stand out. He should be given a run of 3 to 4 games at the senior level to give him a taste. This rubbish of bringing in a kid who has never played senior footy (eg. Setanta) then dropping him because in the 12 minutes of game time he had he didnt get the ball is absolute bollocks. The jump from VFL to AFL is enormous, players need time to adjust. Bring in Bryan and give him a go.

We may have won 10 games last year but the real story was in our percentage.
The games won to lost ratio was a red herring.

Cost us big time... dont mean jack now does it??

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SB, it's not just the loss of Goddard and Wells that I think would have made a difference, we also missed out on the first pick in the pre season draft. That means we missed out on the opportunity to pick up an uncontracted player, and the ability to use that pick as a threat to force other clubs to trade with us for a player (pretty much the same way St Kilda forced us into the Hamill draft). We also lost our 3rd round pick in that same draft (I think it was the 3rd). Therefore, we are 5 players short there already from the one pre season!!

The following year we could only use our priority pick (Walker) and missed our first round pick. The Demons picked up Sylvia with what should have been our pick. Elwood lists Sylvia as one of the big bodied players he would love to have.

As a side effect of the loss of draft picks, we are struggling to attract players to Carlton. We're not viewed as an attractive option because people think we are so far away from being successful again. Yet, we have guys like Nathan Brown and Troy Simmonds prepared to go to Richmond!! Richmond!! That insults me that people would choose Richmond over us - Richmond who have played finals twice in the last 20 years.

I know it appeared as if the guys weren't trying on Saturday, it killed me to watch us so far off the pace. But I think the problem is that last year we over performed. I too was sucked in and thought we were better than we are, but I've now come to the conclusion that we have alot of battlers that just aren't up to it, and very few players in the list with true talent. Goddard and Wells are true talent, and I have no doubt that we would be far better off if they were in our team rather than out of it. Even allowing for Goddard's less than great form to date.

Personally the key thing in all this is the power Parkin gave to the players in 95 is still haunting us.
Its hard for some of them to let go.
I agree with what BV said... and those blokes need to go before we have 22 pulling the same way.
Wont be long now... contracts end with time.
Ive never seen a contract that goes on and on forever and ever to a day...

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We also lost our second round pick and our third.
We lost a first round the next year and a second.

We also lost and anyway because of the ridiculous contracts wouldnt have been able to snag a player in the PSD 2002... bad management and penalties have killed this club.

Reckon we shouldnt play the kids....ultimately gain the picks?????
Course we should... to not do so is gross negligence to the coming decade.

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http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg= ... eid=204730

We made some changes to the article...

I am interested in people's thoughts as to what we most need, given where we think we might be at - a bit underskilled. I'm not talking draft picks either, a specific type of player that we would need most, and how many of those players. IMHO we aren't as bad as some think, in fact, I think we're 2-3 class players short . The bigger issue though is replacing Kouta over the next 2 years. If you look a potential future Carlton team - say 3 years out:

B: xxxxxxx Livingston xxxxxxx
HB: Simpson Thornton xxxxxx
C: Walker Blackwell Russell
HF: Fisher Waite xxxxxx
F: Betts Fevola xxxxx
R: [Rookie] Stevens Carrazzo
Int (from): Lappin Teague Wiggins Sporn Chambers Hartlett Houlihan Raso Bentick

I didnt post the above to start a debate on who will / wont be there, more to point out where I see gaps coming up. To me, we appear to be really lacking in defensive midfield options given my feel that a number of the guys we have won't be ther ein 3 years. I think 2-3 skilled defensive midfielders are required, whose job will be to work with Stevens and hopefully Blackwell, to get the ball out. Then, a French replacement or 2 is required, but I've hoped above that one of our rookies will come through. Clearly if this aint the case a ruckman is an additional and equally important priority.

Im a big believer in Livo being able to hold down FB on a solid regular basis, ie not the star that we expect given the history of Sos, but a real good solid contributor. If he fails, then clearly our whole back line needs a replacement.

I also think that another marking presence across HF will be required - if we could get Waite some help he will really take games by the scruff of the neck like v. the Hawks.

However, the good news is that a lot of our spine is there. To my mind, we're only 3 players away, albeit very good ones, plus a French replacement, from being solid across all the lines. I may be too optimistic but I think we have improved, but just lack polish to take it to the good teams. -

MM and Molsey...I would fix the spine first.....only Fevola and Thornton IMHO could lay claim to a KPP at this time.
My priority would be a CHF.. a big physical type...then a CHB and then a in and under centreman who was Ratten like and could get it 30 times a game.
Next would be a ruckman.....flankers. pockets, wingers are peripheral players and not that importnat in the major scheme of things for my thinking.

Livingston and Waite are still unproven..I think both are promising but to be realistic Waite is still undersized for CHF and Livos future is up in the air. Bigger players take longer but how long do you wait with Livo..he shows something gets injured and then we are back to square on.
Blackwell is very promising and I liked what I saw in the WAFL finals I watched on Foxtel but he is tad light for my liking and I want a centreman/ruck rover call it what you will who has a Riccuito build and nature....happy to see Blackwell as my rover.

Hartlett/Thornton interchangeable CHF/CHB and Waite on the flank. Houlihan changing with Stevens/Blackwell/Carazzo in the Forward Pocket.

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One, possibly two midfielders who can get the ball 25 times a game with about 15 of those being hard ball gets, who can lay 3 or 4 tackles a game and dispose properly if in space. Ricciuto, Luke Ball types. It's imperative we get bona fide midfielders. We probably have enough of the 190cm utilities in Waite and Walker, we need a brick sh*thouse who can muscle the ball in the clearances and give us some presence in the centre square.

This would release Stevens to the wing or something where he would be very damaging.

Like Elwood, I think we need another strong marking forward who's 195/196cm tall and built to match. They're hard to find but that's what we need. No ifs, no buts. If you think Whitnall is the answer, forget it.

Waite could pinch hit CHF but he is still a bit tad undersized for true CHF in the sense that his pack marking is not the best.

I have faith in Livo and Thornton to hold down FB/CHB. We have Hartlett, Raso in the wings (they will take a couple of years) and hopefully they will be Rawlings-like in their ability to play any of the KP - they'd have to be better kicks though . But we lack someone to straighten us up at CHF.

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I think we are miles away and just need to get back to basics with development and recruiting and not look too far ahead .
One step at a time...

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I think we need a CHF, CHB and a good in and under midfielder that throws their weight around and has a presence around the ground - they're the priorities.

I would love to see Waite played in defence at some stage this year. Let him go back there and learn how to throw his weight around in defence. Then when we do have a proper spine, Waite would be that perfect guy that other clubs can't match up on. Too good for the 3rd backman to take if we play him forward, too strong for the oppositions 3rd forward if we need him back in defense, I can just see it now. He would cause havoc.

But we need the CHF, CHB, midfielder and ruckman first.

Oh yeah, and a hard strong half back flanker that makes those forwards earn every kick wouldn't be too bad either. But I guess I'm just biased.....