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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:11 pm 
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Ken Hands
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I just don't understand the fuss, the set shot miss from Houlihan deserves more critique, because it would have given us the impetus to close out the game. Houla is a great kick but somehow I think he choked.

As for Walker streaming down the wing having a shot on an acute angle with his right foot when the game is in the balance ? Well that does not make sense to me? He is an ordinary kick at the best of times why should he not play the percentages and try to centre it. He did the right thing. If it was on the other wing on his preferred foot, you could argue the point.

I think Carey confuses Walker with the likes of Shannon Grant and Corey Jones who could knock those over more times than not. Walker has made progressive improvements to his kicking. He is now kicking more often than not to the advantage of the intended recipient however his kicking for goal has to be his next challenge if he wants to take the next step up. Until he starts hurting the opposition with his disposals he cannot be considered a potential elite player. We will probably see his offensive game prosper when risk taking is once again encouraged by his propsective coach.

Conundrum


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:18 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Blues2005 wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
Blues2005 wrote:
Disagree, although admittedly I haven't seen the incident again since seeing it live at the game. I don't think he was passing the ball but Waite's reach made it look like a pass and had he marked he would merely have saved Walker's blushes. In other words Walker nearly got lucky. But either way he should not be passing in that situation, he should be shooting for goal and nailing the goal every time. No excuses.


:lol: :lol: nailing it from 40 out on the run on an angle everytime :lol: :shock:

thats hilarious - not even everyones jesus reincarnate chris judd does that

your just being silly now


He was running into goal on a relatively small angle with little pressure on. 30-40m out. Sorry but there are no excuses. Clearly, as the angle increases/distance lengthens so does the degree of difficulty and that is when you can cut players some slack; then it would be unrealistic to expect a very good strike rate. But anything within say a 30-degree angle less than 40m out at AFL level has to be a goal.

But yes it's all Denis Pagan's fault that Walker missed anyway.

:garthp:


no I am saying he passed it! 8)

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:25 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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This thread is way off track!
Wasn't intended to be a discussion on Walkers/Setanta's lack of confidence etc.
Go to the match discussion if you all want to talk about that! :? :? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Carey's Blues
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:37 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Mark J wrote:
Listening to Carey on 3AW tonight,i feel he has a soft spot for the Blues,stating that we were 2/3 years away from being a top side,that we were on the right track.
However, he then said that Ross Lyon was doing the best he could with what he had available.I would consider that our CURRENT best 22 is better than the Saints CURRENT best 22.They've won 4 ,we've won 2. :?
Next off he said that the Roos & Magpies youngsters had really stood up this year,so why do ours take so long to develop?
I would argue that our list is at least equal to the Pies,& better than the Roos.
Is it just our coaching panel,or are we missing something else :?:


I would argue that our list is inferior to both the Pies and Roos. We tend to overrate our team just a little :cry: . We have promising young blood that will lead us to greater success in years to come. I would rate our young talent superior to most teams but where we fall behind on is in relation to the middle tier of experienced players where there is a huge vacuum created by poor recuiting, short sighted trading and to a lesser extent the draft penalties, The burden placed on our youngsters to get us out of this mess is staggering. We do not have the capacity to nurture our young but we instrad throw them in the deep end and leave them to fend for themselves such is out lack of senior leadership.

Conundrum


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 Post subject: Re: Carey's Blues
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Conundrum wrote:
Mark J wrote:
Listening to Carey on 3AW tonight,i feel he has a soft spot for the Blues,stating that we were 2/3 years away from being a top side,that we were on the right track.
However, he then said that Ross Lyon was doing the best he could with what he had available.I would consider that our CURRENT best 22 is better than the Saints CURRENT best 22.They've won 4 ,we've won 2. :?
Next off he said that the Roos & Magpies youngsters had really stood up this year,so why do ours take so long to develop?
I would argue that our list is at least equal to the Pies,& better than the Roos.
Is it just our coaching panel,or are we missing something else :?:


I would argue that our list is inferior to both the Pies and Roos. We tend to overrate our team just a little :cry: . We have promising young blood that will lead us to greater success in years to come. I would rate our young talent superior to most teams but where we fall behind on is in relation to the middle tier of experienced players where there is a huge vacuum created by poor recuiting, short sighted trading and to a lesser extent the draft penalties, The burden placed on our youngsters to get us out of this mess is staggering. We do not have the capacity to nurture our young but we instrad throw them in the deep end and leave them to fend for themselves such is out lack of senior leadership.

Conundrum


So your saying we're like RICHMOND? :( :( :(

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 Post subject: Re: Carey's Blues
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:26 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:10 pm
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SA Blue wrote:
Mark J wrote:
Listening to Carey on 3AW tonight,i feel he has a soft spot for the Blues,stating that we were 2/3 years away from being a top side,that we were on the right track.
However, he then said that Ross Lyon was doing the best he could with what he had available.I would consider that our CURRENT best 22 is better than the Saints CURRENT best 22.They've won 4 ,we've won 2. :?
Next off he said that the Roos & Magpies youngsters had really stood up this year,so why do ours take so long to develop?
I would argue that our list is at least equal to the Pies,& better than the Roos.
Is it just our coaching panel,or are we missing something else :?:


Our problem is not our kids but the lack of leadership and hard players in the mid to late 20's that enable the kids of the Pies and Roos to play well. An example is the best players for both these teams. The kids aren't winning for these teams, but the senior group. I would like to see how Pendlebury and Swallow would go getting tagged each week!

Best players from the weekend listed in the paper for the respective games.

BEST: Collingwood: Lockyer, Johnson, O'Bree, Burns, Prestigiacomo, Pendlebury.

BEST Kangaroos: Grant, Harvey, Gibson, Swallow, Rawlings, Simpson.


:) Spot on. Most people don't understand the problem we have in that we don't have many 100 plus games/25 -27 year old players (particularly midfielders) who can take the pressure of our young players.

This is why Stevo was such a big loss!! :) :)


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Why didn't they highlight Murphy ignoring Lappin running past into the forward 50 when he was calling for the ball and unmarked? :?

Murphy kicked to a three on one/two contest which included the opposition ruckman Hudson who marked the ball and they cleared the ball. Carlton kicked out of bounds via Lappin in the next 30 seconds but they cleared the ball again for another goal to Welsh.

Walker is the player that is constantly bashed for poor decision making or kicking. Yet when other kids make mistakes or skill errors it's overlooked or put down to inexperience. Walker was terrific when he won a contested ball by crashing through two Crows and getting the ball out of the centre square.

Yet this was overlooked.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Blues2005 wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
Blues2005 wrote:
Disagree, although admittedly I haven't seen the incident again since seeing it live at the game. I don't think he was passing the ball but Waite's reach made it look like a pass and had he marked he would merely have saved Walker's blushes. In other words Walker nearly got lucky. But either way he should not be passing in that situation, he should be shooting for goal and nailing the goal every time. No excuses.


:lol: :lol: nailing it from 40 out on the run on an angle everytime :lol: :shock:

thats hilarious - not even everyones jesus reincarnate chris judd does that

your just being silly now


He was running into goal on a relatively small angle with little pressure on. 30-40m out. Sorry but there are no excuses. Clearly, as the angle increases/distance lengthens so does the degree of difficulty and that is when you can cut players some slack; then it would be unrealistic to expect a very good strike rate. But anything within say a 30-degree angle less than 40m out at AFL level has to be a goal.

But yes it's all Denis Pagan's fault that Walker missed anyway.

:garthp:


I think it (the decision) shows exactly where Walker is at with his kicking.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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what a load of shit - walkers become an easy target

these are your vultures jarusa

as blueice said none of the good things he does get praised and no other young kid cops the flack he does

dont go sooking when he leaves

even Denis bought himself to give the guy credit after the game

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:39 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Walker stepped up after half time and ran off Goodwin who didn't chase him to set up the aforementioned kick by Murphy. Walker drew two defenders to him to free up Bentick to receive a handball and to kick to Murphy who marked. Murphy kicked long off one step when he was flatfooted and ignored Lappin running past. :?

We constantly kicked long to a contest when they're outnumbered instead of holding on to the ball and finding someone like Lappin who was unmarked. Kennedy was outnumbed four to one in the fourth quarter and Bentick kicked it in high to him whilst Waite stayed down.

Tony Shaw said he hadn't noticed Kouta was unmarked after he snuck out the back.

Can Pagan be held responsible for decision making like that? :?


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:07 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm
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grrofunger wrote:
what a load of shit - walkers become an easy target

these are your vultures jarusa

as blueice said none of the good things he does get praised and no other young kid cops the flack he does

dont go sooking when he leaves

even Denis bought himself to give the guy credit after the game


I reckon you're being a bit sensitive there.

Just because he stuffed up on this occasion and suddenly he is an "easy target".

I have praised Walker in the past and defended him when others haven't been as kind so I am comfortable with my assessments of the player and stand by my assertion that he had no excuse for missing that goal. I can tell you now I would've posted the same thing about any other player had they missed in similar circumstances, it just happened to be Walker on this occasion. And I actually think he did play reasonably well on the weekend and has in general improved this season.

But I am a "vulture" for having the temerity to suggest that Walker should have slotted an eminently gettable kick at goal?

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:13 am 
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Robert Walls
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Blues2005 wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
Blues2005 wrote:
Disagree, although admittedly I haven't seen the incident again since seeing it live at the game. I don't think he was passing the ball but Waite's reach made it look like a pass and had he marked he would merely have saved Walker's blushes. In other words Walker nearly got lucky. But either way he should not be passing in that situation, he should be shooting for goal and nailing the goal every time. No excuses.


:lol: :lol: nailing it from 40 out on the run on an angle everytime :lol: :shock:

thats hilarious - not even everyones jesus reincarnate chris judd does that

your just being silly now


He was running into goal on a relatively small angle with little pressure on. 30-40m out. Sorry but there are no excuses. Clearly, as the angle increases/distance lengthens so does the degree of difficulty and that is when you can cut players some slack; then it would be unrealistic to expect a very good strike rate. But anything within say a 30-degree angle less than 40m out at AFL level has to be a goal.

But yes it's all Denis Pagan's fault that Walker missed anyway.

:garthp:
When he kicked to the square, which is what he appeared to do from the replay (and I have it on pause as I write this), he was at 40m on at least 60 degree angle.

The comment is not silly, just realistic. Odds on that kick from that position being a goal would lie well under 50%, by no means a certainty.

The real point is he could have run in closer and nailed it, and probably should have, but instead he kicked tio the square. It says everything about player confidence at the moment.

However, the other thing the commentators ignored is that Carrazzo failed to provide any kind of shepherd for Walker which allowed Edwards, the only threat, to run in from the side while Carrazzo watched flat footed. Another instance of lack of discipline wrt to the 1% off the ball work which the Blues do not do.

Of course, Waite misses with a shocker from 35m set shot in Q1. Other players (Blackwell, Bentick) fail to spot open targets inside 50 in Q4, Simpson and others kick poorly to Fisher a few times ... players behind the play were not working to cover rebounds ...


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:41 am 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:10 am
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Headplant wrote:
Blues2005 wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
Blues2005 wrote:
Disagree, although admittedly I haven't seen the incident again since seeing it live at the game. I don't think he was passing the ball but Waite's reach made it look like a pass and had he marked he would merely have saved Walker's blushes. In other words Walker nearly got lucky. But either way he should not be passing in that situation, he should be shooting for goal and nailing the goal every time. No excuses.


:lol: :lol: nailing it from 40 out on the run on an angle everytime :lol: :shock:

thats hilarious - not even everyones jesus reincarnate chris judd does that

your just being silly now


He was running into goal on a relatively small angle with little pressure on. 30-40m out. Sorry but there are no excuses. Clearly, as the angle increases/distance lengthens so does the degree of difficulty and that is when you can cut players some slack; then it would be unrealistic to expect a very good strike rate. But anything within say a 30-degree angle less than 40m out at AFL level has to be a goal.

But yes it's all Denis Pagan's fault that Walker missed anyway.

:garthp:
When he kicked to the square, which is what he appeared to do from the replay (and I have it on pause as I write this), he was at 40m on at least 60 degree angle.

The comment is not silly, just realistic. Odds on that kick from that position being a goal would lie well under 50%, by no means a certainty.

The real point is he could have run in closer and nailed it, and probably should have, but instead he kicked tio the square. It says everything about player confidence at the moment.

However, the other thing the commentators ignored is that Carrazzo failed to provide any kind of shepherd for Walker which allowed Edwards, the only threat, to run in from the side while Carrazzo watched flat footed. Another instance of lack of discipline wrt to the 1% off the ball work which the Blues do not do.

Of course, Waite misses with a shocker from 35m set shot in Q1. Other players (Blackwell, Bentick) fail to spot open targets inside 50 in Q4, Simpson and others kick poorly to Fisher a few times ... players behind the play were not working to cover rebounds ...


Murphy missed for goal as well in the first - his confidence in front of goal is a concern early on - not a worry if someone is working with him on it - the worry is whether someone is??????


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:01 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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There are 2 certainties to come out of this.

1. We lost the game.

2. Wayne Carey was at the top of the tree as a footballer yet belongs in the sewer as a human being.

Looking to lay blame wont change either of those results.

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 Post subject: Re: Carey's Blues
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:21 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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BlueDW wrote:
AGRO wrote:
BlueDW wrote:
I think from memory we were a couple of goals in front when Santy has his brain explosion...



This was not a brain explosion on Setanta's part.

This is as a direct result of Pagan's coaching - his philosophy has taken out all the flair, risk taking and excitement out of this batch of young super talent, I include Andrew Walker in this as well.

But in particular in Setanta's case - he came to this game knowing bugger all about its intracacies etc - but he came with an enthusiasm and a naive super thirst for knowledge.

He listens intently to the coach and when the coach tells him to punch the ball at all times he punches the ball at all times, when one of his team mates tells him to slow it down he slows it down.

He is a veritable "Hymie the Robot" in this regard - unfortunately Pagan has programmed all the excitement and risk taking out of Setanta's game. At this point in the game Setanta looked up saw the goals - but team rules dictacted to him to find a better option - this is all he tried to do - was not a brain explosion - was actually wired in brain response.


Ummmm, anyway you look at it that was a brain explosion mate, he didnt have a shot at goal and if he tried passing it then it was just a total stuff up. Was caught in 2 minds mate and in the end did nothing except turn it over!!! Cant be defended!!! And mate, he was 40 out, directly in front and in space, there is no better option in that situation!!!!!




Anything you would like to add this week. :roll:

Played like Groppo today. :wink:

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