Carey's Blues

BlueDW · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 11:39 am

AGRO wrote:

BlueDW wrote:

I think from memory we were a couple of goals in front when Santy has his brain explosion...

This was not a brain explosion on Setanta's part.

This is as a direct result of Pagan's coaching - his philosophy has taken out all the flair, risk taking and excitement out of this batch of young super talent, I include Andrew Walker in this as well.

But in particular in Setanta's case - he came to this game knowing bugger all about its intracacies etc - but he came with an enthusiasm and a naive super thirst for knowledge.

He listens intently to the coach and when the coach tells him to punch the ball at all times he punches the ball at all times, when one of his team mates tells him to slow it down he slows it down.

He is a veritable "Hymie the Robot" in this regard - unfortunately Pagan has programmed all the excitement and risk taking out of Setanta's game. At this point in the game Setanta looked up saw the goals - but team rules dictacted to him to find a better option - this is all he tried to do - was not a brain explosion - was actually wired in brain response.

Ummmm, anyway you look at it that was a brain explosion mate, he didnt have a shot at goal and if he tried passing it then it was just a total stuff up. Was caught in 2 minds mate and in the end did nothing except turn it over!!! Cant be defended!!! And mate, he was 40 out, directly in front and in space, there is no better option in that situation!!!!!

George Harris · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 11:44 am

I agree with Agro on this one.

Humpers · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm **Posts:** 4942

Carey doesn't have a soft spot for the Blues - he is good mates with Pagan and wants it to sound like he is doing a good job.

SA Blue · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 12:25 pm

AGRO wrote:

BlueDW wrote:

I think from memory we were a couple of goals in front when Santy has his brain explosion...

This was not a brain explosion on Setanta's part.

This is as a direct result of Pagan's coaching - his philosophy has taken out all the flair, risk taking and excitement out of this batch of young super talent, I include Andrew Walker in this as well.

But in particular in Setanta's case - he came to this game knowing bugger all about its intracacies etc - but he came with an enthusiasm and a naive super thirst for knowledge.

He listens intently to the coach and when the coach tells him to punch the ball at all times he punches the ball at all times, when one of his team mates tells him to slow it down he slows it down.

He is a veritable "Hymie the Robot" in this regard - unfortunately Pagan has programmed all the excitement and risk taking out of Setanta's game. At this point in the game Setanta looked up saw the goals - but team rules dictacted to him to find a better option - this is all he tried to do - was not a brain explosion - was actually wired in brain response.

Taking out the medical / philosophical aspect, as you can't teach someone to be wired in the brain, as by definition it is learned, I don't agree that Pagan has taken out his excitement and risk. We all loved it when he baulked Lloyd and went on his run in the Don's game, and Pagan is on record as repeatedly telling him to back himself and not worry about the mistakes. His daring runs and heart in the mouth playing style is testament to that.

I know it is unfashionable on this site for players to take responsibility for their actions, and not blame Pagan, but he simply made an error. Not earth shattering or a major issue, but an error in judgement.

Effes · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 12:32 pm

Humpers wrote:

Carey doesn't have a soft spot for the Blues - he is good mates with Pagan and wants it to sound like he is doing a good job.

You should have heard him on 3AW before the game

AGRO · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 12:53 pm

George Harris wrote:

I agree with Agro on this one.

Hop to it George. :wink:

grrofunger · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 1:03 pm

i agree with agro too

i dont think walker was shooting at goal - he looked inboard and saw waite one out in the square

walkers natural instint would have been to goal - but i bet he heard in the back of his mind pagan drilling on about long to the square - long to the square and waite did have the perfect sit and should have marked that.

pagan hasn't instilled the confidence in the boys to take those shots - walker was doing what he most probably has been taught and instructed and to the top of the square was what he thought was the team thing.

walker would have been petrified of being yelled at for ignoring waite one out in the square if he had missed the shot

this is another area where i think pagan is poor for our kids - doesn't instill confidence in them at all

how would you feel if your boss bemoaned your skill level in the public forum

every press conference pagan bemoans our lack of talent etc

i dunno - i see a bunch of confused and unconfident kids running around every week - thats the most frustrating thing for me - you can see it in their eyes - they have all the enthusiasm in the world and want to be unleashed but they are being agonisingly held back for whatever reason at the moment and its killing them.

setanta and walkers non shots confirm this to me.

camel · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 1:40 pm

I was expecting Walker to take the shot on goal ... "C'MON AW!!!" I yelled in support as he was running towards the big sticks.

The key factor here, really, is that week after week we are generating enough opportunities to win games. We're close, very close. We might not nail it this year, but once those rough edges are smoothed out we will all be singing from the same song sheet because the boys will be making such beautiful music!

grrofunger · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 1:55 pm

camelboy wrote:

I was expecting Walker to take the shot on goal ... "C'MON AW!!!" I yelled in support as he was running towards the big sticks.

The key factor here, really, is that week after week we are generating enough opportunities to win games. We're close, very close. We might not nail it this year, but once those rough edges are smoothed out we will all be singing from the same song sheet because the boys will be making such beautiful music!

oh yeah i agree

i was up out of my chair as he was running towards goal and was bewildered when he didnt take that shot - then i thought about it and could see why he didnt.

coffee man · **Joined:** Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:56 pm **Posts:** 174

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5wmRDkL2mw&mode=related&search=

dannyboy · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 5:34 pm

Waite marks certain goal and this would not be being discussed.

Really @#$%&! hindsight coaching/commentating/finger-pointing is really easy :garthp:

In the third (I think) he didn't have a ping at goal either, directed it to the top of the square - as he should have even though i wanted him to have a shot.

As for Santy - for @#$%&!'s sake brain explosion. :garthp:

Jesus have we no understanding of the word development? It means you make mistakes.... Then you learn from them....

Headplant · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 5:51 pm

dannyboy wrote:

Waite marks certain goal and this would not be being discussed.

Really flower hindsight coaching/commentating/finger-pointing is really easy :garthp:

In the third (I think) he didn't have a ping at goal either, directed it to the top of the square - as he should have even though i wanted him to have a shot.

As for Santy - for flower's sake brain explosion. :garthp:

Jesus have we no understanding of the word development? It means you make mistakes.... Then you learn from them....

Poor Santy got a bit flustered there for a while ... the turnover rate ahead of him was a bit frustrating to deal with. Nail our deliveries (and kick-in defence), we nail Adelaide, and the defenders are not dealing with so many frequent rebounds. in a very open forward line.

Walker just did the team thing, Waite fluffed probably his easiest opportunity all day. With more confidence in the team position, Walker nails it himself.

HELLAS BLUE · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 5:51 pm

Humpers wrote:

Carey doesn't have a soft spot for the Blues - he is good mates with Pagan and wants it to sound like he is doing a good job.

I've heard Wayne Carey say numerous times that he wasnt the best of mates with Pagan.

Blues2005 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm **Posts:** 2123

How about we stop making excuses and tell it like it is. When a player like Walker is running in in space 30-40m for goal there is no excuse for not nailing the goal. It's not the point that Waite nearly marked the kick and would have kicked the goal from the goalsquare had he in fact marked it. Walker has played over 60 games of footy now and simply has no excuse. And if we're brutally honest, it was probably a major turning point in the game, in that the Crows went directly up the other end and scored a crucial goal in a critical two-goal turnaround. Walker's errant kick (and it was not a pass nor should he be looking to pass in that situation), whilst it didn't itself cost us the game, was a pivotal moment and there is no point in pretending otherwise. The attempts to somehow put the blame on Denis Pagan for the kick are absolutely laughable, and this is from someone who actually does agree to an extent that he has/is stifling some of the creativity/flair from our younger players. Sometimes the players themselves have to take responsibility and Walker hopefully will know that he had to kick that goal, and hopefully next time when in a similar situation he does kick it.

As for Setanta, his was more bizarre as he had done the hard part and really just had to kick through the ball, so for me what happened was quite inexplicable. But again, this is AFL football and small details make a big difference. A player running into goal in space within range just has to kick it.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 6:47 pm

I thought he passed to Waite

grrofunger · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 7:00 pm

definitely passed to waite - you see walker look inboard and spot him

that was no shanked kick - it was a good pass

i would have liked him to go for goal but he didnt.

If he had kicked the behind from 40 out on an angle you'd crucify him too - he played to the percentages and that was marking option top of the square - dominant forward in good position - who unfortunately dropped the mark.

i can see it now - he misses the goal and gets crucified for being a showpony instead of looking for waite one out in the square who had been dominating

damned if he does , damned cos he didn't - move on.

Blues2005 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm **Posts:** 2123

Disagree, although admittedly I haven't seen the incident again since seeing it live at the game. I don't think he was passing the ball but Waite's reach made it look like a pass and had he marked he would merely have saved Walker's blushes. In other words Walker nearly got lucky. But either way he should not be passing in that situation, he should be shooting for goal and nailing the goal every time. No excuses.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 7:10 pm

nailing it every time

yep Tex should be perfect. :garthp:

God I can'rt wait til we start winning again

Mind you there be games we'll still lose.

grrofunger · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 7:16 pm

Blues2005 wrote:

Disagree, although admittedly I haven't seen the incident again since seeing it live at the game. I don't think he was passing the ball but Waite's reach made it look like a pass and had he marked he would merely have saved Walker's blushes. In other words Walker nearly got lucky. But either way he should not be passing in that situation, he should be shooting for goal and nailing the goal every time. No excuses.

nailing it from 40 out on the run on an angle everytime :lol:

thats hilarious - not even everyones jesus reincarnate chris judd does that

your just being silly now

Blues2005 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm **Posts:** 2123

grrofunger wrote:

Blues2005 wrote:

Disagree, although admittedly I haven't seen the incident again since seeing it live at the game. I don't think he was passing the ball but Waite's reach made it look like a pass and had he marked he would merely have saved Walker's blushes. In other words Walker nearly got lucky. But either way he should not be passing in that situation, he should be shooting for goal and nailing the goal every time. No excuses.

nailing it from 40 out on the run on an angle everytime :lol:

thats hilarious - not even everyones jesus reincarnate chris judd does that

your just being silly now

He was running into goal on a relatively small angle with little pressure on. 30-40m out. Sorry but there are no excuses. Clearly, as the angle increases/distance lengthens so does the degree of difficulty and that is when you can cut players some slack; then it would be unrealistic to expect a very good strike rate. But anything within say a 30-degree angle less than 40m out at AFL level has to be a goal.

But yes it's all Denis Pagan's fault that Walker missed anyway.

:garthp:

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