I was going to go there - but I get shot down around here because I want us to bolster our list with a couple of 1st Round Draft Picks this year because we may never have that opportunity again.

Instead we get the "RA RA RA" from the "legume" gallery who insist that 10 fighting wins a la (sorry theres that foreign lingo creeping in - can I say a la I'm not really sure these days) 2004 is good for the soul and gives our boys the learnings they need to know about winning and boosts the winning culture around the place.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Actually I have to apologise because I'm not really sure if I can use the word "legume" as I believe its a french word.


So if I offended anybody I meant to say "pulse".

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I'd be happy with 10 wins from a young up and coming team then 10 wins from a team of re-treads - but it's ok AGRO - it was a fair comparison to make.

_________________
Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Happy to get those 10 wins NEXT year after we call out our Picks 1 and 3 in this years NATIONAL DRAFT.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

nah next year I'll be calling for us to tank after about 4 rounds - just to let you know what it's like

_________________
Between our dreams and actions lies this world

I never said anthing anywhere about tanking.

We are not good enough to win 4 games this year.

We are shit - and no amount of cheering and waving the flag from the sidelines changes that fact.

We have put things in place to improve ourselves like investing in our Football Department (we could do more things like making sure our Football Director goes nowhere near our Football Department ).

We need to get rid of our Senior Coach and we ALSO need to get a two more decent FIRST Rounders on our list.

Then the foundations are in place for us to start improving.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

you mean we are not good enough to win 5 games don't you?

_________________
Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Both.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Again, we did not have to turnover the list the way we did. When Pagan came in he should have forseen the impact of turning over the list the way he did. Especially given the lack of faith that he places in younger players to perform. We would have still bottomed eventually, however the depths of the plummet and the severity would have been significantly less. Particularly had we employed a gameplan that suited the group of players that we had at the time (something that is still arguable that we dont have).

What would have been the impact of a shallower bottoming? - trade value of existing players on the open market - our players basically went from having some value (2001-2002) to nothing. The gutless performances by the team in 2003 basically killed off any value to the playing list that had existed prior to that (even then, few young players were given the opportunity to perform).

The sydney list was rated as spoon favourites only to make the finals and eventually win a flag. A bit of confidence, some good coaching and a bit of faith shown and there can be a massive difference in player performances. Just look at the massive difference between the best and worst performances of not only the players on our list but on other lists as well

I think the Game Plan one suiting your players is hard to disagree with chooky

BUT

who would you suggest Carlton have kept in 2004? Beaumont? Murphy? Allan?

_________________
Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

1. we shouldnt have gotten to the stage where all 3 werent putting in any real effort (coaches responsibility, followed by club if the coach cant handle it) - That sort of thing can be turned around if issues are seen to be addressed.
2. If all 3 were putting in, I'd have no hesitation in having kept all 3. It would have allowed for a smoother transition into the next group of youngsters. Basically due to the standard of 2003 they lost all trade value - whereas prior to that year they would have held some value

However its not those 3 that would have been the issue - it was the younger fringe players - backwell, freeborn, etc and those that retired early that perhaps could have been convinced to go an extra year for the clubs benefit. They were the ones that we should have retained for the extra year or so to provde the buffer for the youngsters coming through (as opposed to what we were left with. Bradley offered to play an extra year following his retirement once the cap penalties became known - that was knocked back. Ratten, hickmott, manton - all went early. Even a honest toiler like hotton could have been retained rather than having to go out and pick up mott. etc

AGRO, you need to get a good nights sleep...take the legume from under your mattress, you'll find it is more comfortable.

what would be interesting although not helpful is to figure out who the blues would have on their list if they were not locked out of the 02/03 drafts

Goddard, Wells, ... can anyone else fill in the rest

i suspect if we add in these players and all of sudden the team has depth and quality

_________________
The glass is neither half full nor half empty. Rather the glass is twice as big than required.

http://www.blueseum.org/cfc/tiki-read_a ... ticleId=19

On page 2 Ciccio...

thanks Mosely that was exactly what I was looking for

Goddard: backman with beautiful foot skills and given that the recent statistical analysis on long kicking being the most valuable asset in football this is a significant loss

Wells: based on recent history he could have become Carlton's premier tagger by now. Seriously he would play in the midfield an area that we so lacking in depth it is not funny. His skills, pace and poise would be awesome

Mclean: another midfielder who could win the hard ball and feed it to out

the rest of the players have not really made an impression so those penalities cost us 3 starting 22 players and i would definetly say games

_________________
The glass is neither half full nor half empty. Rather the glass is twice as big than required.

That is the key, and that is why it was a HUGE penalty.

_________________
|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Keep the agro burning, Agro.

_________________
Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

flower we were arrogant!

that is unbelievabele, (well, all of that drafting is) but who could possibly think its a good idea to enter the draft at 60 and take 7 picks after that

_________________
thats pretty bad-ass!

Were weren't arrogant just downright stupid.

There are the 8 mature bodied 25 year olds that should be on our list now with around 150 games experience. Who should be forming the nucleous of a side around Brendan Fevola.

We only have one of those players on our list Ryan Houlihan - who is a just a good ordinary player (not as good as Peter Bosustow ).


Persona non grata, status quo, je ne sai quo!!!!

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

......and je ne sais quoi as well......................

_________________
No ones listening till you make a mistake.