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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:32 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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The Duke wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
I wonder if our coach has read this article from Roos about people in the media

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,865 ... 11,00.html


I liked this bit

"I think people have tried to understand the game a little more, but there is still some of that 'kick it long, get it in quick and contested mark' (mentality)," Roos said.

"But Tony McGuinness, a great mate of mine who started work at Port and was in the media beforehand, he said something that really hit home for me.

"That was what he worked out when he became an assistant coach and that was if you kick it in long every game you are going to lose 22 games.

"That was interesting for someone who had been out of the game for a while and had been in the media ... he said if you do that every week you are going to get killed."


How does super coach Roos explain the Kangas pulling his pants down only a couple of weeks ago :? . Also, how does he explain how he had his side playing against Port - very long and direct - a complete contradiction to his trade mark game plan. Any coincidence that it was barely 12 hours after the Hawks/Saints debacle?

Please, don't give me bullsh!i possession footy, it's just plain boring :roll: .
Two Gf's, including a flag and a one point loss, explains things quite nicely. Don't think 2 H & A games from a career tell us much.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:56 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Not sure if Worsfold is the man for us anyway......West Coast has to be one of the easier coaching gigs going around. You would need to bring the WC admin/recruiters and probably their best 5 players and you might get the same results. I think Worsfold was a perfect fit for WC at the time, a faithfull son with a big reputation as being a hard man coming to a club that was rebuilding with everything else in place. Worsfold never had to sell the club to sponsors, rattle tins or beg for members. Judd and Kerr peaking, Cox a gift from god off the rookie list.....it was all there just waiting for him to organise and plan a premiership.


Was Woosha coaching them when we pansted them by 120+ points a few years back? Your point is mostly valid, but it's not like it's been all ice and skittles in Woosha's time at the club.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:07 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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camelboy wrote:
Was Woosha coaching them when we pansted them by 120+ points a few years back? Your point is mostly valid, but it's not like it's been all ice and skittles in Woosha's time at the club.


No, I think Judge was coach then wasn't he? They copped heaps of 60 and 80+ floggings that year.

Then they got Judd, Kerr and so on. Woosha cleaned up by leaving us and arriving back there to take hold of the wheel of a pretty souped up machine. Left us on @#$%&! blocks with the bonnet up in the air :roll: .


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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gerry atric wrote:
The worrying thing about all this speculation, especially Voss being declared a super coach based on the fact that he was a great player with no coaching experience, and Ratts based on the fact that he was a great Carlton player with a little bit of experience, is a worry.

Let's hope against hope we don't do the old Carlton thing of appointing a name, rather than considering and interviewing all prospects and picking the best. That may be Ratts, may be Chris Bond, could be anyone.

This thread looks suspiciously like those in Britts last days when many TCers hailed the new Pagan messiah. Some of those people are now the one's who think he is hopeless. The strengths they lauded are now raised as weaknesses. Can we please learn from our mistakes. Interview thoroughly, just don't have Sticks follow his instincts, he might make Stephen O'Reilly coach.

Also as George Harris and others have pointed out, Paul Roos comments in the Hun are very good and are what a number of us have expressed in this thread.


Agree Gerry, disturbs me too. The last thing we can afford now is to take any kind of risk with our next coach. We have to cover ALL angles to make sure that the person we get is most likely to be able to succeed.

In my opinion. that means someone who has proved himself as a coach, or at minimum, as an assistant.

A couple of pages back I asked the question for anyone who could give an indication that Voss had the necessary tactical nouse and communication skills to be a senior coach, as I have not seen any evidence of this. No one has given a response to this.

I don't care how much respect he had as a player, until there is any indication that he has these skills, then he should not even be considered for the senior role.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yeah, well Judge was an assistant with us too, and look where that got him. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:33 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Siegfried wrote:
In my opinion. that means someone who has proved himself as a coach, or at minimum, as an assistant.


What, you mean like Denis?

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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camelboy wrote:
Siegfried wrote:
In my opinion. that means someone who has proved himself as a coach, or at minimum, as an assistant.


What, you mean like Denis?


:lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:42 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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camelboy wrote:
Siegfried wrote:
In my opinion. that means someone who has proved himself as a coach, or at minimum, as an assistant.


What, you mean like Denis?


Of course, there is a risk in any appointment. And if you remember back to Denis' appointment, there were plenty who questioned whether he would be able to change his coaching style to fit a team without Carey.

All I am saying is that there is this obsession with Voss, when no one has been able to put forward any evidence of his tactical and communications abilities. And I would have thought that those would be number 1 and 2 on the list of skills needed by a senior coach.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Voss, I'd love to have him come in as an assistant and see what he has to contribute. But not as a senior coach, without having been an asssistant elsewhere first, to learn the ropes, and SHOW he has tactical and communication skills.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:11 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Hands up anyone that wants Voss to get the job without an interview.

No-one..good. Now people can stop sprouting that rubbish.


of course, Voss should prove himself but to the club not you and I. If he doesnt impress them, look elsewhere.

BTW Ross Lyon ticks all your boxes and he impressed the hell out of St Kilda at his interview, should we chase him?

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Of course it gurarantees nothigng Buzz, i Siad in my previous post that there is a risk whoever you appoint.

I am merely posing a question to all those posters on here who seem to want to sign up Voss here and now. I would like to hear from them what makes them so certain that he has the tactical knowledge and the communication skills to be a senior coach.

Because I haven't seen any evidence of that, so maybe they have. And if they have, I would be very greatful if they shared it.

Otherwise, if they don't have any such evidence, or even some information to indicate that he may have it, then I am curious as to what it is that makes them so obsessed with having Voss as a senior coach.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:33 pm 
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Not sure where this obsession with Voss comes from.

Let's cast a very wide net and see what we come up with.

I am more concerned with who will be involved in the decision making of securing the coach as I feel that some people at Carlton might be looking to snare a job for one of their mates.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:34 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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buzzaaaah wrote:
Hands up anyone that wants Voss to get the job without an interview.

No-one..good. Now people can stop sprouting that rubbish.


of course, Voss should prove himself but to the club not you and I. If he doesnt impress them, look elsewhere.

BTW Ross Lyon ticks all your boxes and he impressed the hell out of St Kilda at his interview, should we chase him?


I put my hand up :o then I put it down again :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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DownUnderChick wrote:
Not sure where this obsession with Voss comes from.

Let's cast a very wide net and see what we come up with.

I am more concerned with who will be involved in the decision making of securing the coach as I feel that some people at Carlton might be looking to snare a job for one of their mates.


Agree DUC. Unfortunately, from my perspective, the person who will more than likely head this 'sub-committee' when the time comes is one S Kernahan, who fills me with zero confidence.

We could do worse than getting some 'outsiders' onto that committe, such as David Parkin, just to get some balanced perspective.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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DownUnderChick wrote:
Not sure where this obsession with Voss comes from.


I think it's a boy thing. Everything about him screams testosterone and we want a bloke with grunt leading our young men.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr :x

:wink:


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Siegfried wrote:
Of course it gurarantees nothigng Buzz, i Siad in my previous post that there is a risk whoever you appoint.

I am merely posing a question to all those posters on here who seem to want to sign up Voss here and now. I would like to hear from them what makes them so certain that he has the tactical knowledge and the communication skills to be a senior coach.

Because I haven't seen any evidence of that, so maybe they have. And if they have, I would be very greatful if they shared it.

Otherwise, if they don't have any such evidence, or even some information to indicate that he may have it, then I am curious as to what it is that makes them so obsessed with having Voss as a senior coach.


The thing is how can anyone know unless you interview Voss yourself (and that is assuming the interviewer is actually someone who has the credentials to understand what is substance and what is not).

But let's make some assumptions.

Voss was a three time premiership captain in a time of high media exposure. In most sides the captain is charged with the responsibility of doing the most media work and is also expected to provide the majority of on field leadership which also involves communication at quarter time, half time and three quarter time as well as during the match at training and club functions. I cannot remember there ever being any media stuff ups or controversies directly as a results of Voss mistakes and I seem to remember they won three premierships as well.

Anyone who has watched the brilliant Foxtel features in which you could hear Matthews comments in the coaches bix during two of their grand final win would know that during a game Matthews actually did very little tactical manouvering during those games. In other words it seems from the outside that the group of mature players he had were either under instruction to carry certain things out at certain times or were trusted to implement some of their own moves on the ground obviously within parameters set by Matthews. So one could assume that Voss being captain would have had a part to play in this success, and part of that would have been on the field tactical communication.

As far as tactical knowledge, who knows but he has played nearly 300 games in the modern era in a side that was both successful and importantly unsuccesful in his time at the club. He knows the ups and downs of footy, and you would have to assume that if he harboured ambitions about coaching (which he obviously does) then he would have taken notes along the way and formulated his own ideas.

Also, in the very limited coaching role Voss has had he has had glowing reviews.

Without an interview based on what I know of Voss as an individual tick and tick for both communication and tactics.

Can you tell me what the tactical and communication abilities of some of the current assistant coaches who might want the Carlton job are?

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:50 pm 
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John Nicholls
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We need the very best available. The process must be correct which includes getting the selection panel mix right and then a clear picture about what exactly we are looking for. If Voss ends up being the guy, ok. But we must cast the widest net and with Dick Pratt's influence I am sure that will be the case. Interesting times ahead.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Siegfried wrote:
DownUnderChick wrote:
Not sure where this obsession with Voss comes from.

Let's cast a very wide net and see what we come up with.

I am more concerned with who will be involved in the decision making of securing the coach as I feel that some people at Carlton might be looking to snare a job for one of their mates.


Agree DUC. Unfortunately, from my perspective, the person who will more than likely head this 'sub-committee' when the time comes is one S Kernahan, who fills me with zero confidence.

We could do worse than getting some 'outsiders' onto that committe, such as David Parkin, just to get some balanced perspective.


Parkin would probably recommend we re-sign Pagan and trade our 1st pick .....

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Taff wrote:
We need the very best available. The process must be correct which includes getting the selection panel mix right and then a clear picture about what exactly we are looking for. If Voss ends up being the guy, ok. But we must cast the widest net and with Dick Pratt's influence I am sure that will be the case. Interesting times ahead.


What if we get the selection panel wrong?

Will there be interviews for the selection panel?

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:54 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Siegfried wrote:
DownUnderChick wrote:
Not sure where this obsession with Voss comes from.

Let's cast a very wide net and see what we come up with.

I am more concerned with who will be involved in the decision making of securing the coach as I feel that some people at Carlton might be looking to snare a job for one of their mates.


Agree DUC. Unfortunately, from my perspective, the person who will more than likely head this 'sub-committee' when the time comes is one S Kernahan, who fills me with zero confidence.

We could do worse than getting some 'outsiders' onto that committe, such as David Parkin, just to get some balanced perspective.


Not Kernhan! His efforts in this regard have been well documented on this site. A bslance is what is required some like Gerard Healy perhaps???? I am well removed from all this so I'm keen to hear what fellow posters think of this.

Parkin would probably recommend we re-sign Pagan and trade our 1st pick .....

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:58 pm 
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There is no arguing with your logic Jars but all that you have said about Voss means that he is eligible to apply for the position of assistant coach only and not have the job handed to him because of his credentials as good as they are.

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