1) I'd like to see some kind of Forward set up.

I reckon i could count on one hand the times we've managed to hit a leading forward onm the chest.
It's all great that we're doing so well on the Inside 50 stats, but stop bombing it in there and hoping for the best, for christ sake.

Whitnall, Fevola, Fisher, Betts & Kennedy is a top forward line. So why is Fevola on 25 goals with the next closest on just 10?

Let me tell you something..................i reckon there are a few teams who would love a forward line consisting of Whitnall, Fevola & Betts.

Far to often i just see them standing there awaiting a long bomb. Surely we can create space for them to lead into?

2) Play gibbs & kennedy in their rightfull spots.

Gibbs is not a fullback. He could be however our version of Heath Shaw. I just can't see the positive side of things with playing him down back. Fine if you don't wanna play him in the midfield due to size of bodies or whatever but at least let him create play like he did with Glenelg. He aint half the player i watched last year.

Ditto Kennedy, i just think we're confusing him.

3) I'd also like to see the following Debut for Carlton:-

Edwards
Aisakie
Hartlett
Grigg
& Benjamin.

4) Some kind of celbration for Kouta. Damn, i'm gonna miss him!

5) just on that, there is a big possibilty that come the end of the season the likes of Hird, Buckley, Grant, Archer, Harvey & Kouta will all retire. I would bloody well hope that the AFL would pay special attenton to these fine champions.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Good post Danny.

I say we free up the genuine young talent like Walks and Gibbsy by playing them through the middle and up forward.

Get the journeymen like Wiggins and Bannister and those blokes to tag and scrag the opposition.

WTF are guys like that on our list for, if not to take the shit jobs?

Bannister is a handy boxer. Seriously, why not stick him on Dale Thomas and tell him to scrag him all day long? And if someone gets stuck into Murph and Co., make sure he makes his presence felt.

Or... we could use Andrew Walker to TAG Dale Thomas all day long. Jesus wept... Tagging is for grunts of moderate talent like Stevie Baker.

Our young talented kids are rotting away in the prison cell of Denis Pagan's limited imagination and mistrust of youth.

But these are futile cries for help. Until Denis is gone, nothing will change.

Hopefully, it won't be too long now.

hey inde, what are you his parent?

so who cares if things fail - seems to me we're failing now. Thats if we still count losing as failing. So what can we do? Wll we can win games...but it seems at the moment we cannot. I think we need to stop selling the message we can - its a lie. Now there are many reasons why we can't. But the fact remains that again we are on a major losing streak - again.

So what to do about it?

We can hang shit on Denis

We can defend him to the cows come home

or we can have some fun and play 'what if'

I've gone for the third. Cos if I don't I'll go mad.

So get off your high horse. Relax. And imagine some what ifs....

as for how people react - let them.... It's called football.
Argue with them but remember none of us really matter.

and all of us do.

but settle down on being the dressed in white cowboy... it's a silly pursuit.

as for some of your points

Setanta - others might have complained I didn't, liked him at FB and think he will not be a ruckman - so why play him there when the opportunity exists to give a future ruckman a go?

The thing is you do not have to do it all in a single game, just, you know, on the journey of losses that this seasons seems to be heading along, experiment.

as for what others think - so what? This is what's going around in my head.

and besides

I need an outlet for all the things the Ghost can't write

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

ryan2000 wrote:


i reckon you could add rucciuto (spelling?) to that list as well. i can't remember a year where so many huge names are going to leave the game at the same time.

an amazing contribution to football has been made by those seven individuals. they have been the absolute superstars of the game for the past 15+ years and i hope your are right ryan. the afl certainly need to pay homage to these greats of the game

You couldn't get much more open style of play than what was dished up on Saturday. You could move players around to let them have more of a run .
I thought the game against the Kangas was boring and quite crap myself. I much prefer a hard fought contest not this up down virtual touch footy style of game.

Football clubs should not right off a seaon until it is mathematically impossible for them to make the finals. We haven't reached that point yet albeit most spectators are prepared to throw in the towel . Might as well have a two teared system after round 8 . those who want to compete and those who are conducting training sessions and preparing for next year

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

and that, sadly, is what the AFL have created.

mind you, I'll be happily proven wrong - and think I will not be.

Again ist not an all at once thing Sydney but really must JR tag every game? Can;t we at least try a 200cm ruckman and see what happens?

What might happen if Gibbs does play two or three on the trot in the forward arc (with eddie gone especially)?

I want to see some of our kids let lose rather than the game plan of Fev kicks eight we win, kicks five we just lose, kicks 2 or less and we get slaughtered.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

It sounds ok in theory but we dont provide enough protection for these players - Small burst late in the game is about all they could cope with . In a few games this year young Bryce who has held his own down back for three quarters has been exposed going into the last because he doesn't have the motor yet. Pagan should use him down back in small doses and release him in smaller doses through the middle or on the wing .
Sentanta is big enough and ugly enough to cope with the pasting he was getting at fullback he should have been left there and persisted with and encouraged . It seems they are still not sure what to do with him .
JR is actually not a bad tagger but once again he should be rotated out of this role into a freer running role not on to the bench and then back out tagging

Simpson and Waite worry me - both very inconsistant - Waite could be because he has yet to settle Pagan appears to have no patience with him
Simpson only have 6 possession up til 3/4 time on Saturday in an open game like that it should have been 26 for a bloke like him . He did recover in the last .

Murph is suffering the second year blues he will come through it

From what I have seen on the ABC Aisake and Jacobs seem physical enough but look totally lost and would probably be set back playing in the first .

We should stop looking for first and second year players we should be praying for the days when our draft picks are not even considered for selection in their first year . The clubs failure to develop over the last five years in puttin unreal expectations on the new breed each year.
Hawkins - Gumbleton - leuy and Hanson are not even playing we are expecting Gibbs and Murphy to run through the middle and get 30 posses

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Dannyboy,

I often agree with you and like reading your posts but I think this time you are wrong. We may like the kids to develop faster but I think Dennis and the MC have the runs on the board when it comes to bringing players along. We simply can't stack the whole team with kids and have to balance being competitive, with not getting blown off the park and with bringing in some kids.

Under 20 games for Anderson Bower Blackwell Gibbs Russell Young and around 20 for Murphy Setanta and Kernnedy and they have all played this year in the seniors. Some more than others but we can't say they were droppeds when they had good form.

Simpson went his first 3 games without a stat and was brought into the team dropped back, then used down back, up forward and on the wing. His development may have been slow but he is showing the benefit of it now. Like wise Thornton Walker Fisher Blackwell Bentick etc. I think we are developing a very versatile team with most players capable of playing different roles. The major problem is we all want results now and are not used to being patient.

We may not agree with the tactics and players selected each week but we are playing attacking football and the kids are getting a game. It's just I'm not sure that a team full of our youngsters will not get smashed and then have us screaming for more mature bodies and a defensive game plan.

Keep playing attacking football
Get rotations right off the bench
Kick on when we have the lead ... don't get defensive
Setanta to play in all games/Aisake to debut
White Maggots shouldn't be seen
Membership record broken
More of the kids to debut/get tried out in more roles

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Setanta Ó hAilpín 64 AFL Games 45 Goals

Up the Rebels All-Ireland Hurling Champions 2004/2005

I agree with everything everybody has said.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

That's right... he's already 5 times better. Last year he was playing SANFL... this year AFL. Massive step up. Don't be so hard on the kid. I think he's been very good this year ... remember BARELY 18!!

see amazon its because JR has played so few games that I wish he wasn't always tagging. I think that's a tough ask, but the occasional run off half-back as the link man? Why not?

Waite struggle for consistency so play him in a single position for the year.

You mention hawthorn, and yet they did play a lot of kids the past 2/3 years (perhaps overplayed?) its only now they have gotten experience into those kids that they can relax a bit.

Gumbleton has been injured or he may have played.

Hansen was played.

See they are debuting... Then moved back and so forth. Flexibility, experimentation, bit o' fun.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I agree with allot of the sentiments being posted, however as much as I would like to let the kids run free, we are the most scored against team in the comp, even Richmond has had less goals kicked against them than us. At the same time we are the fith highest scoring team which tells us that our forward line is working even though there are so many complaints about the bomb it long theory. So the issue is that we are too free if anything and need to learn our defensive game both in the forward line and in defense, saying that players are natural forwards and don't suite defense because of their lack of accountability dosen't cut it because in this modern game defense starts in your forward line once you lose possession.
I wouldn't mind seeing JK in the forward pocket and stay there and have Fev as the hard leading forward so that JK can take the contested marks and improve his game and also to take a defender from Fev so it makes it easier for our mids to make a decision - if fev has more than one opponent then kick it over his head to JK who should be free or at least able to take a contested mark.
Defense is another problem, but the answer is not to man up, but keep the stucture in place. Everytime we get a run on the opposition floods our forward 50 and our players follow them resulting in 18 players in our forward 50 and very little oppertunity to score, worse than that on the rebound we have only 3 defenders in our back 50 with lots of space for their forwards to lead into. So we don't score and they score easily, what I would like to see is our back six stay there and if their opponents move forward then plug the holes and put pressure on the ball carriers to force turnovers. I know that this would make it hard for us to score, but I would back Fev, Fish and Whitnall taking a contested mark than Carlos, Gibbs and Houli to stop them kick a goal. Play to your strengths, hide your weaknesses, and our strength is our forward line no prizes to guess what our weakness is.

or the way we are playing isn;lt working defensively and so we try different things. util we can stop the goal leakage we will continue to lose.

a saying

if something isn't working and you've tried doing it harder and it still isn't working, try doing it differently!!!!!!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Wow, great to see you've got such a steely nerve there Dannyboy. At least you've come up with a new philosophy: "If at first you don't succeed, try something different".

And no, I don't accept that 8 rounds at the start of a season is enough time to weigh up the worth of the current thinking, especially when injuries to important players and earmarked youth have thrown spanners in the works (Stevo, Fish, Betts, Kouta, Lance, Cloke, Griggs, Jacko and Edwards).

I'm not being hard on the kid, your missing my point. I your thinking i'm expecting him to set the world on fire and win a RS and our B&F your mistaken.

And yes, i am well aware of the difference between SANFL & AFL.

Last year, Bryce seemed to play with more confidance and a freedom that what he is doing now.
He was great of half-back for Glenelg and when shifted into the centre. But after playing a good couple of quaters as a full back and then getting shiffted into the middle he just doesn't look like the Gibbs i watched last year.

All i'm saying is that he looks a different player.

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

I would suggest that its more likely that he's the same player in a different environment. More accountability and more defensiveness to his game. But let's allow him to learn before saying "he's a different player". Cause that certainly sounds like your suggesting he's a different player for the worse.

No, what i'm saying is that i don't like his development as a fullback.

Feel free to disagre with me on that if you like, it's just my opinion. I'm not talking myself up to know anything more about developing a football player than the next guy..................i'm just saying that there are better places to educate Gibbs than what we are doing now.


Somebody else brought up a brilliant post a few weeks back regarding Walker and his High Flying marking attempts. We don't see them anymore? And if he does go for an attempted specky, he's 1st intentions are to punch or spoil.
Years ago, he would have tried to take the mark.

What i'm saying is that perhaps Walker, after being subjected to years of 'defensive' type roles and taggings he...............and this is only a posibility................has become more of a defenisve type player than the attacking & classy wingman/flanker/utility type we drafted.

Gibbs last year was brilliant at centre bounce clearances & his runs of the Half Back line..............he also had this really special way of avoiding trouble (eg tackles and such) despite the fact he doesn't have a lot of pace. Very entertaining to watch.
I'm just a little bit worried that if we continue to shove him down back and deny his characteristics that he's developed & grown up..............well, you get the point.

anyway...................just my $0.02.

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

No worries man, not trying to criticise your view. All I am saying is that comparing the way that someone played in the SANFL to the AFL is like comparing apples and oranges. For example Bannister often dominates in the VFL. At AFL level his awareness is very average. Gibbs won't get the freedom in the AFL (whether it be in the middle or on the half back line) that he got in the SANFL. I would also like to see him up the field more. But I don't mind seeing him in the backline either, it didn't do B Ratten any harm. Learning defensive skills isn't going to kill a kid. For example, when Walker gets played in more attacking positions, he'll still have his instincts to fly for a mark, but he'll also remember the team rules that unless he is a really good chance to take the mark, he should be punching. Remember Kouta also played on the half back line for a year or two before he had his ridiculous great years of 1999-2001.

you see it as 8 rounds

I see it as 3 years.

Go read the thread re Andrew Walker - have a read of what DOA says - its interesting...

Oh and why are you so defensive?

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!