I think we have some areas that have shown improvement with the young kids coming through but still quite a few holes in the team. However we have a lot of kids and some of them will come through faster than others and some will take time and patience.

The game plan of playing on, running the ball and kicking it long generates excitement and scoring opportunities but also leaves us open to counter attack. Given that we as supporters asked, I should say begged, the club to forget the flood and play this type of football I can't complain if we lose matches.
Do we have a squad as good as West Coast or Sydney? No.
Is our team settled? No.
Do we have a settled goal to goal line? No
Are our kids getting experience? Yes.
Has the MC developed Simpson Walker Thornton Fisher Russell etc? Yes.
Has the MC turned over the list? Yes

stating that the kangaroos are shit clearly has no clue.
they are possibly one of the hardest teams in the competition. they are ferocious. brady rawlings is testament to that, under rated but beats his man every week. harvey has pace and skill and is in form. they are a very good side in terms of attack on the man with the ball.

Although the last couple of weeks have been bitterly disappointing, I have to agree with you on this point.

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#DonTheStash

Hawks won 9 games last year.

What, starting the the letter 'P' is a virtue?

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Anyone who reckons we have improved from last year dont look at it close enough. We were not far off in a number of games last year.

We havent improved IMO

Keogh you have to look at who's playing and the style of play to judge whether we are improving. We are playing more kids and we are playing a more attacking brand of football. For patches in games we are showing we can be very good. It's just that when the physical pressure is turned up, we can not last. That's what happens with a young inexperienced team. We are improving. Setanta, Russell, Carrotts, Murph, Gibbs, etc can vouch for that.

Of our 18 losses last year 8 were by 20 points or less.

We are kicking more goals but dont have plan B and plan C and dont know how to close down teams.

I also dont like players in certain positions. Walker and Gibbs in defence.

Pagan must go

Yes agree Pagan must go.
Although I do think the players have improved, the game plan has slightly improved (more attacking), but the coaching and game day tactics have not. They are stale and reactive. The player positioning is also under utilising our talents.

Pagan?

Picks higher in the draft?

Priority picks?

Playing kids?

Putting Gibbs in the back pocket?

Pratt?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Most disappointing thing for mine was the leadership group on Saturday night. When we got within 3 goals with 13 minutes to go and then 2 with 7 minutes to go, where was the passion, where was the excitement, where were the playing geeing each other up..we looked as though we had conceded...when North scored players were getting to the goal kicker..spmepne has to accept responsibility for thid and for mine it is the coach and the leadership group.

They actually have some talent the closer you look at them

Their midfiled of Harris, Wells, Swallow and Smith will be a ripper in 2-3 years and will easily cover their ageing stars.

They have fantastic leadership which is what we lack. Its not about the captain, the whole group demands the maximum from each player

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T E A M

I'm split down the middle with this one.

I'm absolutely sick of losing and can't stand it anymore. But on the other hand we were told that its gonna take years.

I believe if don't win too many more games in the coming few weeks, we should start tanking (playing more kids), so we get priority pick, then we'll really be set up for the future.

I didn't see the game on Saturday (no Foxtel), but at least we are kicking lots of goals. In fact in order to counter ugly flooding the AFL could judge ladder positions just by points for. It would guarantee high scoring, and we would currently be fifth!

We have been 16th for the last two years and losing Stevens and Cloke has really hurt us. We could have won 2 or 3 more with them. But I'd rather use our injury bad luck this year than in the next few.

We have improved I think. But I can't really see us winning many more this year. We don't play the Tiges again (how does that work when we played them in round 1) and the Dees will be ferocious to beat us. I was not a fan of getting Pagan, but neither do I think he is some sort of evil troll with no idea about football and hellbent on destroying the club. My main objections are lack of imagination and tactical nous. I don't think he will do long term damage to the young players (assuming they have some strength of character) and while his use of young players defensively can be annoying, in the long term, that defensive side will win us games (and flags) in the future when the likes of Walks go midfield, Santy is CHB, Gibbs in the middle etc.

At the end of this year I expect we will have picks 1,3,19 etc. That is not tanking, it is just realistically where we are at. DP may resign (without a choice) with a golden handshake and then we better make the right choice of coach! Buikd on the defensive contesting strengths, give players more freedom, develop a gameplan that makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

Fact is we should be talking premierships by 2010 just based on the number of top picks we have. If not I will expect blood on the floor. From 2000 draft to 2007 (if I'm right re where we finish this year) we will have had 7 picks in the top 4! 11 first rounders and 16 in the top 25. We have already wasted 3 of those in the infamous 2000 draft when we chose to draft neither footballers nor athletes, but it is an inexact science and it is really weight of picks that delivers elite. You shouldn't stuff up top 4 picks. We have with Livo, so will presume the other 6 will deliver elite talent and that 10 of the 16 top 25 will be elite or very good. Add to that Simmo, Fish Tbird the O'hs, Ando and Benjamin who may all by 2010 be playing like they could have been top 25 picks, plus topliners like Fev, Stevo (hopefully), and maybe topliner like Scotland and it is hard to imagine that we won't have a flag side.

I hope we keep kicking goals, getting games into the young players, retain them all next year (all the good ones anyway), and then approach 08 with a new coach and a re-invigorated team. Another 14 rounds of pain, but that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is closer than it has ever been.

excellent post gerry. Hit the nail on the head. Pagan isn't quite killing the kids, he's killing the team with his lack of tactical imagination. We will come through this for sure, and the next coach will benefit from having the kids learn the hard way (by learning the defensive side first). I really can't wait for 2008 and onwards. We are heading in the right direction.

At least we aren't losing playing boring football. Carlton games are the most entertaining in the comp at the moment. Will no doubt be Foxtels game of the week...again.

I have been calm for too long...its time to act now...this coach and his tactics is killing our club for far too long...its having effects on kids growing up and barracking for other clubs as we continually lose...

you know how many fathers I talk to who follow the blues but their kids barrack for other clubs.....for this reason...

Thankfully my boys still follow the blues...

Time to act now....

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#sayerscouldbetheman!!

Have refrained from posting in any of the threads post game for fear of letting emotion cloud my thoughts.

While not happy that we lost, I thought we did well to stay in the game.

We are seriously leaking down back and this has to be addressed very soon. I think Ackland has caused us to fiddle with the backline because of his poor efforts in the ruck. I think Waite should stay down the back as playing him forward in addition to Fev, Red and Fish, didn't put the fear of God into the Roos.

Stevens absence impacts on Murphy significantly but I think as the likes of Carrazzo, Bentick and Blackwell start racking up possessions, opposition teams will start looking at them int he midfiled and not just Murphy.

While alot has been said about Houlihan's softness at the contest, I have no issue with him as he is quite skilful, so let him roam up the wing and create a link from the back line to F50.

No issue with Tex or Gibbs playing a defensive role as their time will come.

As we approach the mid season, lets start experimenting with the kids and see what they have to offer.

End

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

I'm pretty calm...............!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

excuses excuses excuses.


we just arent up to standard yet.

my god, we have the second youngest list in the league IIRC and we are expecting 10-12 wins.

for christs sake.

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice