Pagan said he was proud of our effort,they couldn't have done any more.What a croc,instead of sucking up to them ,he should put it on them ala Malthouse.How is it that Port ,Lions ,even Pies can rebuild so quickly,yet it takes us years?They have no more talent than us.

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I see you watching me watching you.

the biggest difference between carlton and the likes of port, brisbane and collingwood is a: superior coaches. where does pagan sit out of mark williams, leigh matthews and mick malthouse? and b: superior leaders within the playing group. we are rudderless at the moment and it doesn't show up more than when the heat is on and the game is on the line.

Our players will learn how to lead when they are inspired to do so.

Pagan does not inspire nor does he lead.

Whitnall, Scotland, Stevens, T-Bird, Fev and Lappin are very good players but they have forgotten how to lead.

It isnt there fault..it has been beaten out of them.

Pavlov's dog style.

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They coud'nt.....could they?