Every time our boys lose they get told publicly that its not their fault. Ok so whos fault is it then?
So now we couldn't have asked for more?
What is that crap?
I reckon the problems are between the ears.

What happens in a players mind when he is absolved of responsibilty week in and week out? What does he think?...does he think I could have done more..we could have won that one..shit Ive had enough of this..stuff it I dont care if I die in the process we are going to win matches even if I have to do it all myself?
I dont think so...and I reckon it dont matter what Pagan and co. say to them the rest of the week its the public excuses that they carry around in their heads.
I reckon that produces uncertain players..that play apologetic football..rather than running round like they own the place. We saw it again yesterday.How many freakin times do we chuck games away that we are in a position to win with coaching moves that fail and awful kicking.
How many more times???

I know all the arguments yes..Young list..development..potential...run out of legs...they were better than us...dont care about the umpires etc etc etc.

I for one no longer believe that or want to hear it. I want to hear how these blokes are good enough and talented enough to win games..cos they are..theyve shown enough for all of us to believe it. I want the players to hear and read that too. I want them to hear how if they put that bit more in then it will happen. I want them to hear how if they dont perform they are dropped. I want them to hear how youth is an advantage not a liability. I want those kids to hear how good they are now not how good they are going to be someday. I want to hear how we are Carlton and we have drawn a line in the sand and we are never ever going to give up...never accept excuses...I want to hear the players talk about how we ARE going to beat teams...not hopefully..or if we are good enough...IVE HAD ENOUGH OF NEGATIVE TALK

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carn the blues

well said we have been putting up with these sort of losses too long do not accept this

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money lost , nothing lost
confidence lost , everything lost

top post mate...it frustrates me too..BIG TIME!...if only the people down at the club had the same passion as you and i.....

as Winston Churchill once famously said: "Never, ever, ever, EVER give up!"....

this apply to Carlton?.....haha...yeah right!

We only have to look at the Kangaroos as an example. Four wins in a row through shear grit and determination. Some of our blokes need to have a good look at themselves in the mirror when they wake up.
Denis Pagan called it a fantastic effort and could not have asked for more. "Well how about sticking the boots in Denis when your team is clearly on top, where is the killer instict, where is the self belief. The Brisbane game and this game where winnable games and we failed. Yes we are more competitive but until we start winning we will never earn any respect.

Sorry Denis but I no longer want to wait 25 years to see my team become a force. The difference between Carlton and Collingwood yesterday was that the Pies had self belief. When you see a has been like Wakelin shark the ball in the forward line and snaps a goal from 35 metres then you know there is something wrong.

Their list is not great but they are well coached and play their skins off for the jumper. I have been a big supporter of Denis but my patience is starting to wear thin.

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WE ARE CARLTON, WE ARE ARROGANT AND WE LOVE IT!

Agreed with all of the above.

Closing in on half time the ball was sent down Fev's throat about 30m out directly in front. He spilled the cherry, but would have swallowed the scraps. Instead Kouta had already crumbed the ball and, well, nothing happened other than the ball was taken down to Collingwood's F50 and they scored a goal with a few seconds remaining cutting our lead to 19 points.

Had we had a 31 point lead at the main break, forgetting anything Collingwood may have done, and our poor last quarter fade outs, at the very least we might have come out in the 3rd giving a bit more of a shit about the game. We mght have had enough belief to see Collingwood off with at least a 50/50 scoring effort in the 3rd.

But, as ever, it wasn't to be...

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if walker could kick it would be nice

Agree Camelboy. That turnover and goal to Collingwood with one second to go to halftime was the turning point in the match. It goes back to the killer instinct which we clearly do not have.

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WE ARE CARLTON, WE ARE ARROGANT AND WE LOVE IT!

Dude, he was born to run.

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Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

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#DonTheStash

Walker is doing fine, if we had a few more Walkers we wouldnt be seeng some of the pathetic attempts to contest the football that we are seeing.
Jack Dyer had a theory that you dont put your good players where the ball aint......Walker should be in the middle initiating play instead we have him tagging young Collingwood recruits or playing on oversized KPP like Travis Cloke..
The coaching is pathetic, game plan non existant and a lot of our kids dont have a clue what to do....leadership is also non existant.
Kouta should never have got the extra year and Lance should never have been made captain....

PS Walker has improved his kicking......

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Shocking post

Walker has had a very good season thus far, and his kicking has been solid, as any other player in the competition this year!

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Yeah I'm starting to agree, what is going to happen this year? Finish in the bottom 2 or 3 again. It's SO frustrating .. here we are having a red hot go up until 3 quarter time, then we just fall asleep. So deflating when actually being at the game.

Agree with above.

For each of the last 2 (and maybe even 3) seasons, Pagan has started the year praising our kids and how their time has come, they have got some games under their belts, and they are ready to take the next step.

And then a month in, it becomes, "they are trying as hard as they can", "they are just kids", "I couldn't have asked anything more of them".

If Pagan says "they are trying as hard as they can" one more time I'm going to go troppo. Of course they should be trying as hard as they bloody well can. It's the coach's job to get the best out of the list he has, and part of that involves players "trying as hard as they can". Anything less and the coach should be answerable.

It is my belief that the coach is not getting the best out of the list. Not to mention the dysfunctional forward set up we currently have.

Having said all that, Pratt said on the weekend that as long as we keep winning (keep??), Pagan is safe. He expects us to win 10-11 games this year.

The writing is on the wall Denis.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

but you cant perform miracles.

we have been in good positions against the saints, lions and now the pies

in the end it was the little bit of experience, little bit of fitness that we dont have.

its as simple as that, our best footy, is up there with anyone in the comp, in patches we play fantastic footy, premiership winning footy, and we have to learn that the gap between our best and our worst is very little.

but all that will come with time.

it will come when we have murphy having done 4 pre-seasons, it will come when we have less than 5 players under the age of 23 taking the field, not the 15 like we do now.

we are a youngest side by a mile.

forget the youngest list, its the players that take the field is what im concerned, with and there is no other side in the comp that has as many players under 23 taking the field week in week out than us, and we are starting to get exposed becuase of this.

we can do well in the first, well in the second, third is usually our best, but we tire in the forth, its the sign of a young team.

I dont want it to happen, i dont want us to fade, but we also have to be realistic about it as well.

look at all the starting 24 for each club, and we would be several years younger than everyclub in the comp. forgot the lists, everyside packs their lists with kids, but very few of those kids get a game for a few years, we dont have the luxury.

i liken our progress too geelong and the bulldogs as i think we have taken a very similair path and over time we too will become like the cats and doggies, but do it better, as is the carlton way.

our best is as good as any in the comp

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Yes mate...your right...guess I am just way too impatient.

Thing is my original post was from my heart and not my head. I have spent hours week in week out rationalizing like you just did. But after Saturday I had just had enough. I have supported Pagan till now but its getting harder.

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carn the blues

i know your pain mate

was with my father watching the game on saturday, all we could say was

"are we going to fade like we have for the last few weeks?"

but it is a sign of our age, and honestly, it does wear thin, but it is also the reality of where we are at.

the way i see it is this

this year, we will lost honourable (and we have with exceptions of cats and eagles)

next year, we will win some of these, lost some of these

year after, we will win most of them, but we will lose some

year after that, we will win most of them, our core of players will be the 23-26 range, and we will have the right mix of strength, fitness, age and we will be a good side to watch.

its not all doom and gloom, we at times have played exciting footy, ive enjoyed this year, far more than any of the last 5 years, becuase of how we are playing and where our improvment is coming from.

we are getting on top becuase of murphy.

best thing about the game against the filth.

first quarter - our leading stats winners, where Murphy, Gibbs and Bentick

thats exciting

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Exactly. Walker is one player who certainly does give a damn and also gives his 110%. He has a huge motor and is highly competitive, but for some reason Denis seems to hide him out of the main action for large parts of the game.

If you want to see how good the coaching is, have a look at our static kick-in setups, despite varying strtegies used by the opposition. Our guys still have no clue how to defend against all except a basic even spread zone strategy.

Or have a look at what some of our players do, where they go, after they release the ball

I agree with everything said apart from Walkernators negative feedback

I am totally sick of the excuses, the coaching style is just not right.
How could our fitness not be up to it? We were the fitest club going around in round 1. I don't think we actually run out of legs i think the players drop their heads when they know they cant win the game.

DEFENSE
What l don't like about the way Carlton play is they play 5-10mtres of their opponent in a zone defense style, which allows teams to easily chip the ball around and get to their half forward line. Would love to see one on one football.

MIDFIELD/WING - Why are we wasting gibbs in the backline? We got him to be a midfielder/winger and we waste his talents in the backline. We need players like murphy and gibbs kicking it into the forward line. Put Walker in their too. Hes bigger now and quick.

OFFENSE - Its all cluddered up, Fev is rarely on a one out lead with his opponent, without having a carlton team mate dragging his opponent closer to fev. You got the best full forward in the league and hes competing with his opponent and his team mates for marks.

Kennedy also can never get in the game, hes never in the gameplan.

RUCK - We are playing a hack in the ruck (Ackland/Cloke), now clokes gone for the season promote Alaske or Hampson. Setanta should of been on Rocca not Whitnall.

I think Pagan is like John Howard, if you say something long enough you start to believe it. Carlton should have won 4 games this season.

Pagan has had the wrong match ups and game plan in the games we lost.
Example. Gibbs on Johnson (BRL). As soon as pagan saw that he should of switched and put a better defender on Johnson. Not cos l dont think Gibbs was up to it but they isolated him. If they put a better defender on Johno they wouldnt of done that. They had no respect for Gibbs yet

Rocca on Whitnall was a mismatch and he stayed with that all game. Theres a million other things l dont like but that will do for now

I think Pagan should stop blaming the players youth and start winning games. Would love to hear we made a wrong decision but its always the players youth at the moment.

Next week North, I hope pagan stops playing around and gets serious

great post

One of the more intelligent posts we have had around here for awhile.

Agree 100%, but would like to add that if our coaching panel was more creative, and we weren't continually screwed by the umpires. a couple of those losses would've been wins.

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No Guts, No Glory