My belief is that we are still in the early stages of rebuilding. The 2004 national draft when we picked up Russell, Hartlett etc, is the first full draft we've been in for 3 years. (as we all know)

I think that the recruiting of recycled players was never going to be a long term plan. With our hands tied in terms of drafting kids, I think the foreign legion was always going to be an interim measure. Get rid of the old guard, recruit some mature bodies that will hold the fort until we are in a postion to draft and develop young talent. I would be very surprised if many of the recycled players will still be on the list in 2 or 3 years time. Unfortunately, I think there'll be a couple more years of heartache to come while we build this list.

The main reason I believe we are still losing by these big margins is because the list is physically underdeveloped to effectively pull it off. However, having said that, by the time the likes of Walker Russell etc (plus the talent still to be drafted) mature, the team will be so well drilled in the game plan that we will start to see the effectivness of it.

Wonder if Hartlett, Russell, Blackwell, Walker etc understand the clubs fortunes will be in their hands....and the expectation of the supporters....

I'm sick of getting players who take forever to develop....We need some walk up start players who can make an impact...Reiwoldt, Judd, Ball types ..real quality that impact in their first couple of seasons.....

No more players who need 20kg of spuds and five years of commando training to look like 1st year players let alone seasoned footballers...
As slo mo said..rejects are an interim measure........the reality is we need a draft where we pick up a Reiwoldt and Kosi and then follow it up with a Ball and Dal Santo the next year or two....we need our own core group of A grade youngsters or we aint going anywhere.....

That's why I think the current draft system goes against the philosophy of this sport and the philosophy and winning culture of the CFC.

You have to completely bottom out to be able to draft the best kids in the country. There aren't any quick fix solutions in modern football.

Pagan said during the week that the issue facing the team at the moment is a lack of confidence and that is what he will be addressing for this weeks game. I tend to agree with him and hope he does.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Yeah agreed….it is these basics that are our downfall at the minute & why we are so frustrating to watch.

Our disposal suffers because the player with the ball is not being protected and given room.
We are getting brushed aside when we lay our (one armed) tackles.

In the soc club during the last qtr against Geel I was watching us fall to pieces on the TV & the camera went onto the coach's box. A guy behind me yelled out 'they're SOFT Denis!'

In years gone by a word like that would have copped a few dirty looks but I couldn't help thinking the guy had a point, with regard to the last 2 weeks at least.

I believe Adrian Hickmott is coaching in the country somehwre at present. I'd love it if we could contract him to come down once a week & help Libba etc.

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#DonTheStash

I agree that at some stage (unless you get Ablett and Scarlett thru the F/S) you have to bottom out to get to the top. That does not mean throwing games it means being ruthless with your list by trading decent players who are too old to be there in the next successful cycle for early picks, taking your subsequent medicine of low finishes because you have an inexperienced team and getting more low picks.

Once you are successful and win a flag or flags it is possible to stay there without bottoming out. What you need to do is trade your over-valued premiership players (like Heffernan, Headland and Jacobs) for first round picks to continually top up your list. If you are successful your average players look like chanps, when you are not they look like hacks.

I am not saying this is easy, it is bloody difficult, Sheedy tried and failed because he got stuck with Misiti and Mercuri on long untradable contracts. You've got to know exactly where your list is at and when to go for this option. Matthews has waited too long at Brisbane, he could've got good value for the Scotts at the end of 2003, now they are worthless. Malthouse and Williams didn't really get the luxury because the former didn't win the flag and the latter took too long to win it and now both will pay the cycle price.

Kouta having a negative influence? I must be watching a different team this year, because I thought he has been trying hard, as certain stats will show. How can you justify this comment CC?!?!? Or are you shooting from the hip

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

I must admit I was a bit surprised that T-Bird was overlooked in a few of these posts.

We are still re-building and don't have the depth we need to have to be a force. IMO we need at least 2 more drafts to try and get some of the youngsters we are going to need in the long term. We need support for Barnaby in the ruck, we need more height down the spine, we need some players who can take contested marks, we need some more midfield runners with pace and skill and a couple of inside midfielders who have good skills.

We have some players on our list who were taken as stop gap players to fill a hole but they did arrive with reputations and faults that they had at their previous clubs. They are trying their best and have produced some good games for us but not consistently. We have been very succesful with our rookie listings and the club and MC continues to turn over players in this area to try and find some gems.

We have traded to try and fill that leadership gap with Teague, Chambers Stevens and Scotland added to Lappin Houlihan Barnaby and Whitnall. I think we still need another player or two in this group however to get one we need to trade and we just can't afford to give away too much. The only other option is to try and develop our top ranked youngsters as fast as possible and get them into the experienced group by continuing to play them in the seniors as much as possible rather than drop them for poor form.

We have some kids who Denis and the MC are trying to give as much experience as possible to before our most senior players in Kouta and Campo retire. Unlike previous periods we don't have the other senior players to cover and help them.

We simply can't afford to give a lot of our younger players 3 years in the ressies to build up their bodies skills and stamina and learn and practice the game plan. IMO Simpson is not ready physically for senior football but has the pace and skill we need to have in the team for the future. Walker is in his second year and is very up and down in performance. We know what he can do but to achieve that regularly he needs time and more experience. Thornton has been very consistent and is only 21.

There is just so much the coach and MC can do. Dennis and the MC have given the players a very simple and easy game plan. They have thrown our key position options and midfielders around the field in order to try and get something out of them for the team and generate more run and mismatches.

Barnaby has had a very good season and seems to be getting beter with each game but there is only so much he can do when he is sometimes playing against sides with 2 or 3 ruckmen. We have gone with Prender and Archie even Lance and Digby to give Barnaby some relief in the ruck.

The MC and coach have tried most of the players on our senior list in an attempt to find out who can deliver under pressure and on a consistent basis. The big problem is that you can't win many games if you only have 14 contributors and IMO it is those 8 more regular senior players that we need to find.

Me shooting from the hip? Nah that'd be your specialty surely JB

When a player of the ilk of Kouta starts to ball watch unless the ball is winnable and fails to apply decent pressure defensively, then that's not a good example to set to youngsters is it? By simply being there standing hands on hips, it doesn't help team morale does it unless he's completely spent, which I don't think he is. He looks like he could do more. Now it maybe there are some external issues in his life and for his sake I hope there aren't (like in 1997/98), but yes, by simply being there, by being on that fairly hefty contract, it's not good.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

I blame the French.

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In Bolts we trust.......Until we don't anymore

I take your point on our talent levels, but I think you could add Waite and T-bird to the "could" list as well. Still not great, but hey I just doubled the list!

Great thread guys, keep it up.

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Houla is a quality player, should be at least on the "might" list.

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No Guts, No Glory

When has Houla ripped a game apart?

He's a handy player but not in this league

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Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

Versus Port this year he was exceptional.

v Essendon* in the rain... that goal (followed by the 'chainsaw'). Has kicked a few important goals in his time. And last Fri was very influential in getting us going in the 2nd Q with those pinpoint passes to Fev. (Yes Fev could win us a flag but only with quality delivery and there's not much better than Houla atm).

I'm not saying he's not a handy player I just dont see him owning a game of football, he has got great skills, but he is slow with the ball, doesnt have good peripheral vision and WILL NOT win us a Grand Final.

I rate Lappin way ahead of Houla and Lappin wont win us a GF either.

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Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

You don't like our older players much do you, Clem? And I don't think it's just because of the contracts issue...

How much do you expect from Kouta. Fair enough sometimes his defensive pressure is poor but so is the whole side's. The reason we got thumped the last two weeks is not because of Kouta. Actually overall I'd say Kouta has had a decent season. He's one of the best clearance players in the league. He's got dodgy knees. What more do we want from him? He's not the player that he once was. We all know that. But what was Kouta's defensive pressure like when he was dominating the game? Back then he was a lot more agile and mobile but was hardly renown for his defensive efforts. I'm not saying that this excuses him now, it doesn't, and you're right sometimes it does look poor. But I don't think you're giving Kouta, and probably several other players, a fair go Clem. You're overlooking their strengths and what they do and have always given to the team for something that you allege that they are not giving.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Kouta's deffensive work is far better than what it was back in 2000/2001 because he had the freedom of knowing that he had mates in Ratten, SOS, Ang, McKay, Bradley, ect, ect, ect, to back him up if he ever got in trouble. NOW, it's a different story!

B2005,

I think it's kind of well known I'm not particularly enamoured with our older players

I know Kouta has dodgy knees, I know the guy's 32, I know he's never had a great defensive game. But that's the point. In a team where defensive pressure through the midfield has been extremely poor, the leadership group have GOT to stand up and show the way. They haven't. And THAT is what my problem with the older players is.

Kouta is a great clearance player, I don't begrudge him that at all, but he doesn't provide the toughness around the ball that we so desperately need.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Clem if you're not a good defensive player at age 32 you're not a good defensive player full stop. It's not like Kouta's 22 and we can teach him to learn how to play more defensively. It's something we've put up with for ages with Kouta.

I just don't think it's in Kouta's nature to apply this defensive pressure of which you speak. I would never think that Kouta doesn't try to put on defensive pressure, of course he tries. At the end ot the day though he's being criticised for not doing something that's simply not in his makeup as a footballer. I know that a lack of defensive pressure kills you and I get as angry and frustrated as anyone when I reckon that not enough pressure was applied by any player.

The leadership group are not defensive minded players and we can't turn them into defensive players at this stage of their careers. Does this excuse Kouta? No it doesn't. Every player should at least put some defensive pressure on when he's called upon. Kouta's failed several times as has everyone that's worn the jumper. But Kouta just isn't a defensive player and that's the way it is.

Is it Kouta's fault that he doesn't provide the toughness of the ball? Again, Clem, it's hard to be something you're not. Having said that, I don't think he's all that weak.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.