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 Post subject: Lets be REALISTIC!!
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:53 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Guys I know how much we all love this club and most of our emotion charged comments come from wanting this club back to where it belongs...on top and winning flags. Have no doubt we will get back there again but we must look at our current position realistically.

We have in my opinion the youngest list in the AFL (as far as game time played is concerned). We have won 2 spoons in 4 years. We have no depth to speak of as yet and so are vulnerable when 1 or 2 players go down. We have in my opinion the wrong coach leading this current group howver with Dick at the helm there will accountability so this issue will be rectified, have no doubt.

OK the positive is this. We have massive potential with our current list and this potential will be achieved ove the next few years. Our current performances are a direct reflection of the above together with a lack of experienced heads to guide the youngsters on the ground at critical patrs of the game. Stevens was great in this regard. Lets look at the filth for a moment everyone is talking them up as usual and going on about all their young kids...?? I had a look at their list and you have no more than 6 players who could say were new to the game and still learning...the others were all 50-100game plus players the majority having finals experience etc... When our list reaches the stage where we have the right mix of experienced heads (to steady them team at vital stages of a contest) together with the enthusiasm and exuberance of youth ...WATCH OUT!!!

Must I remind you that what we have over teams like the filth is we have the inbuilt ability to be successful when the time is right. They have and will continue to limp to the line and fall over when it counts. The reason for this?? Our lists have always been built around class and heart ...only a combination of the two can ever lead to success.

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Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:56 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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paragraphs are good mmmmkay

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:22 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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no arguement...though it would be lovely to knock the pies off their perch !

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Spot on dom. I wrote the following in response to our game on Friday but I think it contains points valid to this thread

Quote:
People just aren't prepared to accept exactly where our team is at the moment and who is being played through the middle especially.

Stevens, and to a much lesser extent Koutoufides, are not available at present and especially Stevens, he is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to our set up and structure in the middle. Since Nick went down we have a 19 year old, 20-gamer leading the way through the middle. Little to no support to speak of. I mean real fighters. Real tough nuts with some sort of class and consistency. Bentick - has limitations, Simmo - good player but really should support a good cast of midfielders, Hoops - similar to Simmo, Walker - not used enough in there, Russell - used defensively. Otherwise we had a 1st gamer and a kid who is playing his 1st for the year.

A younger, more inexperienced group of midfielders will not be seen on the field this year for any team. Have a look at the key ball winners for the aints - Dal Santo, Harvey, Montagna all 25+. Ours, Whitnall with low 20's, T-bird with 20, then Murphs who racked up pressured stats with a tough Baker tag. Again, a 19 y.o, 20 gamer were talking about getting the best tagger in the game.

Dont say we didn't try. Dont crack the shits (OK maybe be shitty!). This result was expected. The aints still had a decent side in especially through the middle. The highest possession winners are f'n good players. Games are won there.

The loss of Stevens has pretty much condemned us to a bottom three finish and if the dees (definitely) and ferals (less so) start to get their act together, then another last finish is not impossible. Nick was going to carry our midfield this year and give our youngsters a chance to get experience with his work at the coalface. We are in trouble fellow supporters unfortunately. We needed everything to go absolutely right for our team to get perhaps 8 wins. This included not losing Stevens and even Kouta for extended periods.

This is going to be a long year and with a caoch that is past it we are in deep shit!!!

At least, thus far, we are playing better than in recent years and our better players are our up and comers. There is genuine promise and upside to our team and real scope for improvement. This is what we can pin our hopes to. But forget about 2007, its about 2008 and beyond. Im not talking about tanking, but trying to be a realist as to where we are at.

I just cant accept the constant barrage of negativity and misplaced criticism. I hate that we are still an inferior side compared to others but dont carry on like we should be playing as if we have a premiership list!


We are coming off two consecutive spoons and some of our injuries have been critical. We are undermanned in the middle, still very inexperienced down back and we will lose more games than we will win this year. Our inexperience is even more evident with some of these injuries. The haul for us is a long one. Draft penalties and a flawed recruiting policy up to 2005 means that we have a lot of improving to achieve and are still behind most clubs in terms of list quality and development. I have already seen glimpses of the improvement we can expect in coming years.

All I hope is that we can carry the young’uns through unscathed and hopefully lose DP along the way! 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:28 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Yes it would be lovely knocking off the pies...don't be surprised if we do...they have talking themselves up heaps so far this weak...and we all know what this means when we play collingwood and Essendon* under these circumstances. Throw in the "G' factor and who knows??

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" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Blues are ok this year, if only we win a 1st quarter from the umpires we have had a chance to win every game barring WCE and GEE.

You can blame Pagan all you like, he does some weird things with the setup of the team but l'm curious to know though if he comes up with those ideas or his assistants.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:02 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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I have a feeling it was pagan...why they ever persisted with that 10 man forward line against St.Kilda is mind boggling. The obvious tactic would have been to leave loose players around the middle (wings) giving us the better chance at centre clearances this way by having more numbers around there That way making sure we get first use of the ball or at least drawing their opponents back up the ground and clearing our forward line and therefore breaking up this flooding tactic. We put too much pressure on our mids by persisting with this mad move because it meant if Aints cleared the middle it was a certain goal for them given the openess of their forward line. To me it looked like self induced suicide. Unless I missed something.

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" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:01 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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You watch the improvement of our young guys with a new coach and a more positive game plan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:47 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Rumour file of 3aw this morning said that Pratt offered a 4 year deal at $800K per year for Paul Roos to fly south.

While I dont think this will happen, if the Pratt looking for a new coach bit is true - we are on the right track..

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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blueman wrote:
Rumour file of 3aw this morning said that Pratt offered a 4 year deal at $800K per year for Paul Roos to fly south.

While I dont think this will happen, if the Pratt looking for a new coach bit is true - we are on the right track..


I mentioned in the Talking Players forum under "the coach: Denis Pagan" that it will be either he (Paul Roos) or John Worsfold that Pratt will try to lure to the Blues, if we were to search for another coach.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:19 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:20 pm
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We are behind the eight ball and need to continue to add more quality and speed to our list. Can you judge a coach on a young list with not much depth where he is not only trying to win but also blood the kids and build a side? Dennis is a premiership coach who has a reputation for developing kids and building a side which is competitive for a long time. Do we judge him too hard because we want instant sucess? I can't criticise hin for playing the kids because that's what I want so I won't complain about losses when we don't have the troops or the experience and skill needed.

The Saints were playing two men back behind the play in our forward line. We either left them there and let them run the ball out of defence and suffered on the rebound or we manned up and made them accountable. This was our third game in 13 days and we ran out of legs. The MC brought in two runners but they were kids and couldn't keep up in the last quarter.

The Saints tactics congested our forward line and we tried to change it around and got on a roll but they then changed their onball group and started to get it out of the centre and then our defence was under pressure. IMO just not enough quality onballers and midfielders with speed when we needed them.

Obviously the game plan is compromised because we are playing the kids to get games into them and Russell Walker Simpson and Betts are getting better all the time. Murphy and Gibbs are standouts and Setanta Anderson Young Jackson all are benefitting from getting exposure. They make mistakes but they are trying and adding run and flair and I can't knock the kids or coach for that.

Whatever you think about the MC and Coach you have to be happy with what you see coming up and through the team. Down back Waite may have found his niche Setanta could be our fullback for years to come Thornton is our fix it key position man, Scotland sets up play well, and Walker provides run and flair. Still need to find a back pocket but Anderson may develop next year. Simpson on one wing Russell on the other provide a mix of speed and skill. Stevens Gibbs and Murphy provide midfield class although IMO we need more quality support and down forward we have Betts, Fisher and Fevola with Kennedy doing his apprenticeship. Still a lot of holes in the side but the basis is there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Wangers wrote:
blueman wrote:
Rumour file of 3aw this morning said that Pratt offered a 4 year deal at $800K per year for Paul Roos to fly south.

While I dont think this will happen, if the Pratt looking for a new coach bit is true - we are on the right track..


I mentioned in the Talking Players forum under "the coach: Denis Pagan" that it will be either he (Paul Roos) or John Worsfold that Pratt will try to lure to the Blues, if we were to search for another coach.


That's how we got Swann. Dick wants the best ... and usually gets it. The cheque book will be out big time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:33 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Great post Ammo.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Ratten & Voss would be worth a try imo :idea:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:42 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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blueman wrote:
Rumour file of 3aw this morning said that Pratt offered a 4 year deal at $800K per year for Paul Roos to fly south.

While I dont think this will happen, if the Pratt looking for a new coach bit is true - we are on the right track..



And this thread was titled "Lets be realistic".


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:58 am 
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Rod Ashman
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kennyhunter wrote:
Wangers wrote:
blueman wrote:
Rumour file of 3aw this morning said that Pratt offered a 4 year deal at $800K per year for Paul Roos to fly south.

While I dont think this will happen, if the Pratt looking for a new coach bit is true - we are on the right track..


I mentioned in the Talking Players forum under "the coach: Denis Pagan" that it will be either he (Paul Roos) or John Worsfold that Pratt will try to lure to the Blues, if we were to search for another coach.


That's how we got Swann. Dick wants the best ... and usually gets it. The cheque book will be out big time.


Dick could offer John Worsfold 5 million a year and John wouldn't move him and his family away for 4 years,he doesn't need the money,he came to Carlton to learn to be a coach for a short time so he could coach and become succesful how he is now with the eagles.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:36 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

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amazonstud wrote:
This was our third game in 13 days and we ran out of legs. The MC brought in two runners but they were kids and couldn't keep up in the last quarter.


That is the most piss weak excuse I have heard in a long while. I got an email from the club spouting this crap. We played one Sunday game, followed by a Saturday night game and then a Friday night game. St Kilda had played 3 games in 14 days and played in Port the week before.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:36 am 
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Horrie Clover
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If its true that Dick is throwing out some bait...its not so unbelievable.
Maybe he's testing the waters to see who will bite...and sending a clear signal to the coaching fraternity that the Blues are loooking for the best and will pay the best to get it. Do not doubt the attraction that our list offers to an incoming coach.

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" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:02 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue York wrote:
amazonstud wrote:
This was our third game in 13 days and we ran out of legs. The MC brought in two runners but they were kids and couldn't keep up in the last quarter.


That is the most piss weak excuse I have heard in a long while. I got an email from the club spouting this crap. We played one Sunday game, followed by a Saturday night game and then a Friday night game. St Kilda had played 3 games in 14 days and played in Port the week before.


3 games @ Telstra Dome, 1 game @ Subiaco over the past month of footy = the TESTRA DOME surface is killing us.

6 weeks ago we where the fittest team in the comp, now .... you work it out!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:28 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

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SurreyBlue wrote:
Blue York wrote:
amazonstud wrote:
This was our third game in 13 days and we ran out of legs. The MC brought in two runners but they were kids and couldn't keep up in the last quarter.


That is the most piss weak excuse I have heard in a long while. I got an email from the club spouting this crap. We played one Sunday game, followed by a Saturday night game and then a Friday night game. St Kilda had played 3 games in 14 days and played in Port the week before.


3 games @ Telstra Dome, 1 game @ Subiaco over the past month of footy = the TESTRA DOME surface is killing us.

6 weeks ago we where the fittest team in the comp, now .... you work it out!


St Kilda = 3 games @ Telstra Dome, 1 game @ Footy Park over the past month of footy plus a truck load of injuries = Piss weak excuse for a loss.


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