Nothing changes.. still laments about everything/everyone but himself... and the umpires....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Personally, I'm with the crew who recognise an obvious improvement in the team, a slight improvement in his coaching, but recognise the curve will always be slowed under Pagan.

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Love Cricket? Love me

Pagan doesn't change.

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There's so much I could say...

[Synbad]
Yep that's it...

Death, Taxes and Pagan...
[/Synbad]

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

If we all had that overly cautious mindset, Richard Pratt would still be a casual observer of our club. I was'nt sure there'd be no instability when Smorgo was voted out but sometimes courageous decisions need to be made.
We cant sit in the corner scared of taking calculated risks.

I also fail to see how Pagan refusing to talk to his VFL affiliate coach or telling radio commentators that he should have more control of the football department creates stability. Or telling the media that he was told not to draft a player by the board and then embarrassingly doing a backflip 24 hours later instils stability.
Does stability come from having a coach who isnt trusted to select his staff, his assistants or who he wants to draft?

Whether or not Pagan is replaced, lets hope the decision is made on a fair criteria of performance, ability and track record at our club to date and not the fear of change.

As for viable alternatives, we've been through all this before. Michael Broadbridge, John Longmire, Chris Bond, Paul Hudson etc etc etc.
There are plenty of alternatives for those interested in looking.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

It's called sarcasm jarusa.

So far; Carlton have definitely improved their style of play.....whether it's the influence of Braddles....Ratts....Crosisca.....Pratt.....or the man in the moon.....Pagan is the Coach and will get the accolades if we succeed and the criticisms if we don't.

That's the way it works in Business doesn't it?.....success or failure lays at the feet of the man in charge.

Why did he play Gibbs at Full bACK
Why did he not have Ackland or Cloke dropping back in the hole allowing Brown oodles of space to weave his magic.
Pagan= dumb coach

If Pagan would have had his way we would have had Gardiner & Zantuck at the club

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

Still believe the best candidate for external coach at the moment is Guy Mackenna maybe swan will have influence here

reckon Guy Mckenna comes from the same era as Worsfold with same drive and ambition and knows the winning culture that made the Eagles a powerhouse in the 90's

What wosfold has been doing with the eagles in his brief stint there.

Other options as mentioned include Longmire / Bond / Ratten as suggested by someone else

Anyway DP i reckon has his target set already at 10th Ladder position as his min target if he gets that he may see out 2008 if he fails to reach this target he i reckon will be finished with the Blues

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

However, coaches who get recruited to senior jobs from assistants at Collingwood have a bad track record:

- Dean Laidley
- Danny Frawley

Could McKenna be next?

I reckon we look at someone who's worked with Leigh Matthews... he's not afraid to rebuild a squad...... Ashcroft? Rehn? Cresswell?

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Love Cricket? Love me

I look at Mckenna to be similar to Worsfold who i rate highly and from when Mckenna was being interviewed i think he would have been a better option than Lyon

Worsfold was a Blues assistant he done okay and i reckon when he left thats when the Blues nose dived badly

Anyway Mckenna of the same era and like woosha knows how a succseeful club is run

Still think he is the best candidate going around ideal fit for the new Blues

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

Won't it be funny if Pagan does better than what this thread is suggesting?

Warby, look what your avatar's done to my avatar... it use to be static.

Apologies if you take offense, but to me those who 'tire', or are 'losing interest' with their club come across to me as fairweather... and I associate that with Richmond *or more their supporters. Ok, so the coach isn't up to your standards and the club is in the grips of what is without doubt the worst run in the history of the club...

...so does that mean we'll see you get fed up, then turn off or tune out - only to catch you again sitting next to me the next time Carlton is in the Grand Final?!

**that said, I've seen you posting on here and TBV in the past - and I don't believe this to be you... I'm just saying that you come across that way... as for SydneyBlue?! **



I think Jars was referring to your comment *obviously made in error* "I hate seeing my team do so well"...

I'll stick with the argument I've made in Pagan's defense on this forum many times before... and that is that, upon taking over the club - Pagan made no illusions to the amount of crap we were in... regardless of his heavy use of recycled players in the beginning.

Pagan said back then that it would be 5 years before we would be back on track and showing hope, dark days behind us - all that... and this is the 5th year. So yes, I have been patient, and by the look of it more patient than many others - but he has this year *much like many of us noted Prendas/Livos last year to prove themselves*... and if he isn't showing marked improvements or finals come the end of Round 22, I'll be looking at Pratt and Co to look elsewhere.

I think this is a brilliant respons Jimmae. It is a response that should be applied to a lot of the negative comments made on this site whether they be directed to Pagan, Lance or any other player/member of carlton.

Dont you remember that Lance killed Lucas in our defeat of Essendo last year??? Which match-ups has he [REDACTED] up this season? Oh yeh Lance on Lucas! @#$%&! hindsight is a fantastic tool.

In the wet. Lucas towelled him up in their re-match in fine conditions. Lance was also in career worse form leading into the match and Lucas was the form player in the comp. The match up was a shocker and was never going to work, every supporter around me thought the same, only the joker in the box thought different.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Time to go (2 years late). I had problems with Pagan and his game plan from day 1 and nothing has changed except finally supporters opinions of him.

Would prefer a young coach with fresh idea's without the burden of keeping his winning % intact.

Yeah that's pretty much the key point for me too.................nothing has changed,............................ even he's silly one-liners are the same (god forbid we get another draw this year to hear that 'sister' line!).

A few points to argue 'Against him':-
60+ point floggings.
Flooding. (although MUCH much less, so this can also be counted as a positive.)
Too Fev-Focused.
Far to predictable (although i have noticed a slight improvemnt here).
Constantly using the '3 years behind' excuse (which he was using 3 years ago).
Piss-poor percentage.
Still acting like a 6 year old arguing with his sibling re:- Barry Mitchell saga ("waahhhh.......he started it!!!!")
Always slow starters in our games, including pre-season. (although the Lions game was a good start)


A few points in his defense:-

Pre-Season form............and NAB CUP win!
We're already 3/4trs of the way to beating last years wins.
Stevens, Kouta injured.
Paitence of Setanta at full-back.
Recruitment of Grigg & Hampson (who gets credit for this, Denis or Recruiting officers?)
Showing *SOME* signs of a more 'attacking' style of play (albeit, for a quarters & not a full game)
The fact that we are only into round 5!


Again, i'll support Denis, but reserve the right to change my mind ......................................after i've given him enough time to prove to me that he's changed (5 rounds is nowhere near enough time to judge him).

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle