no dane it was a shot at subject matter

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Friday night will tell us a lot about Pagan as a coach right now.

Are you both sure you didn't once barrack for Richmond?!

Positive and I take offense to that!

I hate seeing my side doing so well, year in year out and want something done sooner rather than later to get moving forward, but it seems others are quite happy to be lap dogs for a few more years. Each to their own.

You hate seeing Carlton doing so well.

You can't just come out agreeing with a comment about rapidly losing interest in the club and then get on the moral high horse.

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I'm staggered that there are still people that don't see improvement from last year, especially after saturday nights game.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

sweet as. just looked that way!

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dane's trolling again

So what you are saying Deano is the spoon we win in 2007 will be an improvement on the spoon we won in 2006 which was an improvement on the spoon we won 2005 and we all know we were in a better position with the 2005 spoon than when we won the spoon in 2002.

and Jars you may be able to maintain an interest hiding behind your stats and justifing spoons with the rewards of draft picks . But I find it very difficult to watch the seasons blend from one into another and nothing is done to rectify the cause .

If he finishes 15th 11th 16th 16th and 16th again are you still going to say he is the right man for the job - No other coach in the history of any professional sport we keep his job with those results

we are heading south again - but this year it is coming faster

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

We won't win the spoon this year.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Who replaces him and why will we be better off? Not having a shot, just want to hear peoples thoughts. Its very easy to say sack him but I dont think the top 5 or 6 coaches would leave their clubs no matter what we throw at them. Do you think Longmire or Ratten or Harvey or Voss are capable of walking into their first senior job and taking us up the ladder? Do we just say heres a 5 year contract learn as you go, we dont expect much for another 2 or 3 seasons?

Whilst the foundations are being built its still a massive task and yes Roos and Worsfold and Craig were untried senior coaches when they took over, but their lists were far more advanced and experienced and they had far greater leaders than what ours has in my opinion. I dont think theres a point sacking a coach unless we can be confident that the replacement is going to do a much better job, otherwise its a waste isnt it? We will end up like St.Kilda or Richmond changing coaches at the drop of a hat. In a perfect world I would like Pagan gone but not just for the sake of it.

Hide behind stats.



If there is someone better out there King Richard will find him. I'll not shed any tears if someone better is found.

But if somehow Denis hangs on and we start playing finals and heaven forbid he hangs on long enough to wint a premiership watching you eating the biggest shit sandwich of all time is going to be hilarious.



We are one win ahead of where we were last year at the same stage, that comment makes no sense whatsoever.

I missed you at the Melbourne comedy festival.

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Brently probably wrote the most intelligient post in this whole thread-
Can those proposing to sack Pagan please put forward some viable options as to WHO should coach the football team, and be certain that whoever does get the job can ensure no instability comes about?

Its a tough and dangerous call changing your coach at a time when our graph is pointing upwards- and I get the feeling Pratt is happy with the set up of Pagan, Swann, Icke and himself steering the wheel for the enxt few seasons...

Its only another two weeks and the ledger will be square.

What shall it be this friday 10+ number 24

You may have missed me at the comedy festival Jars but I have been posting here for a while now and nothing has happened in that time that says I am incorrect .

why is there more downers than uppers

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I reckon you would do a better job Josh - Counldn't do much worse

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Brett Ratten also spent his first 2 years learning the defensive side of the game in the back pocket.

He became a fairly handy midfielder after that.

Carrazzo also did his apprenticeship in the back pocket. Note his improvement, too.

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“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
- Martin Luther King Jr.

I'm in between answers at the moment.

I promised that i would give Pagan as much support as i can this year, which i have been doing, but only if he promised to show some changes.

So far, i have seen quite a few quarters that resemble the same crap we played last year, i'm not happy with that.

And whilst i'm really not happy with a few thigs he did on Saturday night i am happy that we weren't so Fev Reliant and we didn't put on a flood.

Jesus i hate flooding. We flooded badly against West Coast last week and only kicked 4 goals.
We don't flood at all on Saturday night and what happens.............we kick 18 bloody goals ! Not only that but we came out with the best ever multiple goal-kickers since 2000 ( or something like that).

I'm not happy with Gibbs down back. Dissaponited with the way Denis is playing him.
You don't see Thompson playing Selwood or Hawkins down back.

There has been, at times, a much more attacking style which i saw SFA off last year, so i'm happy with that.

But there has also been two in-excusable 10+goal losses that came as a result of the same crap-ola un-inspiring play that we dished up last year.

I dunno.............................

I don't think i've ever tried to hide the fact i dislike Pagan, and i certainly have been vocal about it at times, but he is our coach as promised by mong-head-magoo (smorgan) last year so if i'm gonna support Carlton i'm gonna have to support Denis................

So i'll refraine from voting............for now! And perhaps i'll address it half-way through the season.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

So you think Carlton are doing well?

We are 3rd last with a 2-3 win/loss ratio and percentage of under 80.

What have we become.

re: Gibbs.....playing him down back has helped him get more of the footy and do what he does best and that is find other players with some nice foot passing. The truth of the matter was he was looking lost midfield and was finding the pace of the game hard to adjust to.....
Luke Hodge found it hard to get a kick early and Judd comparisons made him look ordinary but he found the footy easier to come by down back and now is a more complete player and is now working in the midfield and getting dwon to kick some goals.....Gibbs will have a similar development I think.

Gibbs is a very consistent young player and while Hawkins, Selwood and others will have their BOG's I think you wont find Gibbs out of our best players too often down the track.....like I said before its silly to bag him over the Brisbane game....no one was going to stop those passes to Johnson......

I'm not a fan of Pagan but Gibbs to the backline has been one of his better moves IMHO.......what I want is Walker on ball...he has done his time down back and I want him in the action...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I'm a bit with Jimmae, Josh and Ryan...

I'm actually not a Pagan fan, and have been wanting to see a younger coach for a while. And his decision to leave Gibbs on Johnson was a shocker. However...

Over the last few years, I have been very critical of Pagan's coaching, specifically the defensive attitude, the unwillingness to encourage risk taking (or so it seemed), the flooding, chipping, possession football. I said back then that I would much prefer to see the players allowed to run and create and play flowing, attacking and DIRECT football, even if it meant we were going to be belted a few times (or even a lot of times) because we weren't flooding and dragging the game back down to the level of a scrap.

It seems this year that that is what they are trying to do. There is much more of an emphasis on getting the ball, going into the corridor, and playing long and direct, backing the one-on-one. And I will happily put up with that, and the beltings that sometimes come with it, if it means we learn how to play that style of exciting footy. The defense will work itself out, in time. We have got great reboud out of the backhalf this year, as for the defensing aspect, they will need a couple of years. Which is ok, because we have a couple of years.

We have a massive hole at CHF. Look what happened in the first half on Saturday night...for the first time this season, we had a dominating CHF, and we looked great in attack. Not only could we play through him, and not just rely on Fev, but Whitnall brogught other players in as goal kickers. CHF is a huge priority for as at the moment. I'd love to see us kicking 18 goals each week and Fev only contributing 4 or 5 of them.

We are still too Fev conscious, and Pagan must get through to the players that if Fev is being double teamed, it means someone else is free, and Fev is just as valuable as a decoy as he is as a goalkicker.

But there has definintely been a significant change in the game plan this year, which I like...even though it will lead to some beltings. As I said, I can live with that if it means we learn to play an exciting, attacking brand of footy (which, IMHO, will ultimately kill flooding football). Who is responsible for this chage, I don't know. Could be Pagan, could be the assistants, could be a group thing.

One more thing, we look so much better when we play man-on-man and not a zone. Yes, sometimes we get beaten because our players are still developing, but we are so much more effective when we go man-on-man.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Is Pagan better? Yes
Is Carlton better this year? Definitely yes. Forget about margins, watch the game. Our midfield run is better, our passes are better. We have a young and developing backline. Any other time and place setanta woud have been switched in the 2nd 1/4 and we may have won the game. Setanta stayed, hopefully learned something.

Is Pagan the man for the future? Probably not, but he's here now.

BTW, Walker isnt playing back anymore. He's an old fashioned winger atm as far as i can tell.

Time for Hartlett and Bower to get a go. Wiggins needs to go now. He is getting worse

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T E A M