ross lyon recruited gardiner so obviously he saw some benfit in having him at the club
may prove to be a poor decision, only time will tell

ross lyon has a fair bit of credibiltiy to his name, some even say he was a success while he was coaching at carlton.

mitchell did a good job in getting the bullants to the top of the ladder over the last 2 seasons, but come finals time, when he couldn't use a full compliment of carlton listed players, the team bombed out in both years, when they should have al least played in the GF

why didn't mitchell lead the bullants to GF?
do we blame the players
or is this pagan's fault also
or is it to do with mitchell????
maybe this was ian collins or john elliots fault (sorry being dramatic)

Good thing about life and football clubs is everything is not about "now". Thinking about "now" a few years ago is what got this club inthe sh1t in the first place. If Pagan's going to gone soon, if that's what they're planning indicated by the retention and support of Mitchell, why sack Mitchell and then have them both gone in a short time. Mitchell's done a great job, why should he be sacked simply because some stubborn pr1ck won't talk to him. On the other hand Pagan's done an extremely poor job and is only here because we couldn't afford to pay him out. Sends a poor message at anytime to reward the "poor work" and get rid of the "good worker". If Pagan had performed in his time at this club, this would now not be a issue. Pagan has no-one to blame but himself and should feel lucky he actually has a job.

talking about sending messages- what message does it send to the players and supporters that the club support people that go behind others backs

i have no evidence that mitchell went behind pagan's back, but I also have no evidence that he didn't.
but now there is s perception that this is part of mitchells character
many carlton supporterss do, many 'media commentators' do, may football followers do, so obviously some players will think this also

what happens with fev, he loves pagan. lets say he plays for pagan
we sack pagan and appoint mitchell, will fev have the same respect for mitchell, will mitchell getbthe same out of fev as pagan has??????

unknown

but from reading post on here, there is a pretty big assumption players play for the coach rather than the jumper.

unfortunetly mitchell is now damaged goods and if pagan goes and mitchell stays there will still be unstability at the club.

The Club employed Swann & Icke for their respective abilities and professionalism, to subvert their authority deliberately or otherwise, is simply untenable.

Sticks & Gleeson, as are all Directors obliged to make decisions in the best interests of the Club.

If Swann (& Icke) recommend Mitchell &/or Pagan go, then the Board as a whole must duly consider this recommendation in the best interests of the Club.

It once again highlights that Sticks cannot remain in his influencial footy department role as well as be a Director.

He cannot do both.

In fact he can only be a Director, as Icke supposedly already fulfills the footy role.

The Board has to deal with this and make it clear to Sticks that he has only two choices .. Director or nothing

my two cents worth

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NG
S M C , S F L

Hey Iguana - I would give you $50 for your two cents worth.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

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NG
S M C , S F L

Blame the fact that Preston hasn't got the money to pay for the same standard of VFL players that Sandy does.

I also seem to recall Ross Lyon coaching the Ants or the ressies before Mitchell and having less success.

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Hey Rocky; there are too many rabbits ... in China.

1. Setanta was languishing in the resrves before Barry moved him into defence and the rest of the senior coaches gave him limited attention until he started to perform.
2. In my posts I frequently refer to Denis, Pagan or DP as well as Barry, Mitchell or Mitch. I vary according to my mood of the moment.
3. Mitchell's contributions were during Ants games and in the video reviews of those games, which he previously did individually with each Carlton player who played in the Ants during the previous round.

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Hey Rocky; there are too many rabbits ... in China.

With the greatest of respect, RR, you haven't done much to say how you know it was Barry's decision to move Setanta to defence rather than Pagan or the other assistants who suggested or recommended the move.

Has Barry claimed the credit for the move in the press or personally to you? Or have the other members of the coaching panel last year told the press or yourself that Barry was the sole person entitled to the credit?

The problem is that Barry had 2 roles last year: Assistant Coach under Denis Pagan working alongside Libba and Trout as full-time assistants, and TD and Dempsey as part-time assistants, as well as coach of the Bullants. He would have been spending a lot of time with the coaching panel last year.

How can you exclude the possibility that the question of how to use Setanta was raised during Match Committee meetings? How can you be sure that there wasn't a request made by Pagan that Setanta play as a defender, or that Libba didn't come up with the idea?

Given his dual roles, wouldn't Barry have had an obligation to discuss with Pagan whether to play him forward or back?

If we can assume that Barry commonly made his own decisions about where to play Carlton-listed players, do we blame him for playing Harts as a defender? Does the credit for playing him as a forward go to Pagan during the NAB Cup matches?

If there is little communication now between Pagan and Mitchell, do we assume that it's Mitchell who has taken a set against Bower as a defender? You've noted that Mitchell is busting Bower's chops over failing to man up, and has shifted him out of defence on occasions as a result. Does this mean that Mitchell is trying to suppress Bower's natural rebounding game and flair? I've assumed that he may have been operating on requests from the coaching panel, but it seems from what you say that he operates on his own initiative with others such as Setanta.

But surely we can't just give Mitchell credit for any success while blaming Carlton's coaches for anything that doesn't work?

So, it does seem as I suggested that Mitchell's performance is to a large extent dependent upon the quality of the Carlton-listed players.

RR, would it be true to say that on current trends it doesn't look as though Mitchell is going to have much if any opportunity to train the Carlton-listed players this year? Are the game reviews going to be conducted by the Carlton coaches? Would Mitchell be limited solely to match-day coaching? Wouldn't it be fair to suggest that he will have limited influence over the development of the Carlton-listed players who play under him?

Doesn't the sponsorship deal with NAB give the Bullants more money to attract good VFL players? Have we done so?

If I revealed my source, I might have to kill you.

If and when I get the time and inclination to respond to your last posts, I will. Until then you can accept what I say as well sourced information - or NOT. I don't mind one way or the other.

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Hey Rocky; there are too many rabbits ... in China.

I give credit to both Pagan & Mitchell for Setanta's development.

Both have been paitent, understanding but also reasuring for Setanta. I congratulate them both for that.

But..........................Barry must be handed praise for the way he used Setanta in the Bullants.

I remember the 2005 season when Setanta was playing mainly up forward and in the ruck. He was good, but nowhere near the level of consistancy that is required to play senior football. At forward, he either looked lost or he dominated. But if he had a good game, chances are he'd play a bad game the week after.

Then in 2006 when i saw him as a defender................DAMN,.......i went off my nut and Barry! WTF are you doing you moron -He's no defender!

Well shit, don't i have egg on my face now?

What Micthell did was give Setanta a role he could call his own & a sense of belonging. Which then in-turn created consistancy...............which lead to his well-rewarded promotion to the senior list. And the kid hasn't looked back since.

Just on that thou. Whilst i credit Mitchell, and think he is LARGLY responsible for Setanta making it (and he has!) i credit Pagan with something else.
Setanta, since coming into the senior side, has almost been given a 'Simpson-esque' license to run with the ball. It's almost as if Pagan has said "If you feel like taking them on, go for it!" And i think THIS is my favourite part of Setanta's game.

So yeah, i thank Mitchell and talk him up often for what he's done to Setanta but i credit Pagan also.

Mitchell ultimetly gave birth to Setanta the defender.
Pagan is helping him revolutionise the role.

Not claiming to know any inside sources here, nor have i ever met the irish lad, or Mitchell or Pagan for that matter. Just stating my observations after watching both the Bullants & Carlton & being a MASSIVE Setanta fan since his arrival almost 4 years ago!

(P.S. Watch for Aisakie this year MOFO's...............Be Warned!)

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Maybe Mal Michael was the first real BIG mobile monstor full back

...anyway, IMO, Mitchell is a top notch development coach and would be a great loss to CFC if he were given the arse. MUST BE RETAINED!

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There's so much I could say...