Another great thread initiated by BB. Well done.

I don't realy want to bag our players after only 2 rounds, so I'll give my opinion on a few things and suggest what we should do at some stage.

I am a Lappin and Houlihan fan, and whilst I am a fan of Lance's, I can't justify his inclusion atm. If he wasn't captain, he would be dropped!! So I suggest that he aint going anywhere and hope that he does find form.

I said it before he was selected; due to an interupted preseason I changed my mind on Lance as captain, and was dubioud that he would have a good start to the season. I am just statting the obvious, not demeaning his potential and aability when fit...really fit. He needs a good preseason to have a good season and the MC should have taken note of history.

Firstly, let me say that Houlihan imo was good in defense last week against one of the game's great smalls (Ablett), when in the BP, but didn't really get much of it in the middle against Ablett...maybe that had something to do with their ruck domination, maybe the bounce of the ball, alot of maybe maybe maybe...

I question who should have tagged Ablett in the middle if not Houla? Wiggo? Grigg? Russell? Then who would have filled their position on the field. Rob Peter to pay Paul. Maybe Houla is not being played in a suitable position or role (I suspect). I think he's good in the BP. The jury is out for me, because he has missed some easy shots at goal...silky skills or out of form? If he that's his strength, well it's not with him, so maybe he is out of form. So maybe Ando for Houla now that Grigg is injured, if there was a need for change.

I wonder why Betts drifts in and out of the game. The one thing I love about Betts is his forwardline pressure. But when he plays up the ground he is lost imo. I don't know why? Why is he up the ground? Pagan? I don't mind when he presents up the wing as an option, but time and time again there is no crumber for out tall forwards in the hot spot; that's where I want Betts.

If I was to be harsh after 2 rounds I would drop Ackland along with Lance. What would the message be if that was done? MC screwed up in PSD and choice of captain. I would have Hampson in only to get first touch in the centre bounces or to at least nullify the opposition ruck. Ackland must show a bit of agro and better positioning around the ground, and stand up...in front of a pack!

I have no questions regarding Hampson's pace...so his inclusion imo would not tilt the side towards to top heavy side imo. Maybe he is too young. Sure, I accept that argument, but I am not satisfied with Ackland atm, nor in the preseason (except those 2 goals he marked and kicked in against the Dawks). I agree with Synbad on this...he's a bit of a jib atm, and he seems to come in for the mark from the side...and I reckon he lacks aggression (supposed to be his strength).

Wiggo. Well I couldn't fault his effort in a lack lustre team last week, so he's held his spot. Has he changed my mind about him being in my top 22? No! I prefer Bower to take his position.

I would like to see Lappin, changing with Betts in the FP...busting their guts and crumbing and kicking goals.

I would like to see Hartlett at HF, Fish in the FP (hot spot) replacing Lance.

I want Waite at CHB.

I'm a fan of Edwards and Jackson...so their time will come, and I wish Grigg was in the team.

I like your backline BB.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

..

So we stick Hoops in the twos and he gets 30 touches and kicks three goals, then where are we? is he the defensive enforcer that everyone wants him to be?? doubtfull, will he come back in? yep, he's an AFL class player and since our midfield is yet to be bursting with players who are creative and can use the pill, he's what we've got.

I don't think that problems are solved with just chucking kids into the side. I've got nothing against blooding kids but you have to look who's spot they're taking and what affect that has on the team. Now while Hoops is seemingly just tolerated by this forum, I can tell you that the 15 opposition coaches know what he's capable of and also what his weaknesses are, and no coach is going to give Hoops free reign as they know he'll have a 30 touch game with a stack of quality deliveries inside 50. Every bloke that the opposition has to mind like this means less pressure on Stevens, less pressure on Kade and less pressure on Murph, now all of a sudden they're all more effective. Having seen the kids we've got lining up to come in, I can tell you none of them will command the attention Hoops does, not because they're duds, just because they're not ready.

Lance and Lappo were reasonably ineffective last start and I think you could easily make an argument for Harts and Bower to come in because even though neither are really slamming the door down, they've both shown enough and the current situation has opposition coaches relishing the match-ups of players like Lance. I just find it strange that guys like Hoops and Scotland are continually criticized because they're not the players we want them to be even though they are effective and play their role.

In a rather inglorious week of posts,finally someone who has grasped the reality of the situation....

Well done!

Great post blu44.

Houla is a class player on our list!

I strongly believe that Bower should be in the team.

Hartlett is also knocking at the door.

Edwards, Jackson and Blackwell must be close.

Benji and Ando are not ready...but I can't wait to see Benji flying on the wing.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Houlihan has been in our best six in both the opening two games, not sure how you can drop him....

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Go Blues

Bondi,

I think you'll find that Eddie is being groomed for occasional midfield stints. IIRC it was a preference he expressed and a wish he said that the coach and MC supported. I think it adds much needed pace and tackling pressure to our midfield just a pity we don't have two of him.

Ackland is a bit of a concern. Cloke seems to have grabbed the opportunity in the ruck and is providing an option linking up through the midfield. Ackland may be one of those players who is a workhorse and needs a lot of game time to get to his peak. It's his first year with us and I don't know if we have established the spark he needs to give his best.

I think the captain has to be told to rest until his knee is better and he can run. Also I don't think Bentick had a very good game and would have to make way before Lappin and Carrazzo.

IMO we could play Ackland and Cloke changing out of the forward pocket and CHF. I thought we provided a lot of opportunities down forward last week but could not buy a mark in the forward 50. Bad decision making and failure to provide options did not help. Both Ackland and Cloke have at least shown they are in good pack marking form and I would use the changes at selection to bring in another two runners.

Personally I would like to see Jackson elevated and together with Anderson brought into the side. Anderson could provide us with that back pocket drive speed and toughness we have been lacking. Would not be unhappy if it was Anderson and Edwards or Hartlett but think we need to add more pace to the team. The Bombers advantage in the ruck with Hille and Laycock may need to be countered by more pace around the ground and an extra runner should give us more leg speed at the end of the match.

Anderson O'Hailpin Thornton
Walker Waite Scotland
Simpson Stevens Russell
Fisher Cloke Houlihan
Betts Fevola Kennedy

Ackland Gibbs Murphy
Lappin Jackson Carrazzo Wiggins

Everyone knows that the time for radical surgery is after the season has passed us by and we're just counting multiple 15 goal losses.

All the debate has been about certain individuals.

What about the premise itself? When should the Club start to give some new debuts out to young players who deserve it? In the end senior players are going to be the ones that fall by the wayside. When is too late - Round 8?

(seriously Houlihan knockers should probably look at players who cant find the ball, cant play in defence and cant mind an opponent first?)

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Nicely said blu944

Houlihan isnt a class player and never will be....he just looks good because we have had such a poor list and he can hit a target.
Because he can hit a target that seems to excuse him from doing anything that would be expected of anyone else.....like chase, tackle, put the body on the line.
Lets raise the bar and get some more real footballers like we have with Murphy, Gibbs, Walker, Simpson......Houlihan isnt good enough
to be playing with these blokes and letting them down with his insipid half arsed attempts to tackle , chase and make a contest everytime.
Credit to Scotland he has improved in his weak areas as that mark running with the flight of the footy vs Geelong showed.....

Ackland is a C grade ruckman being overpaid and we need another fill in to fill in for him until Hampson, Aisake and Jacobs can give us some real hope in the ruck.....Ackland has more ability as a forward if he could get some attitude and intensity about his play..

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Amen Brother! Great post.

Ok, we all know that Hoops defensive skills are not as strong as they could be, and I pray that he improves in that area of his game, however he does posess some great skills that can damage other sides when allowed to run free. Let him work to his strengh's and he will be an asset to our side.

I agree, Whitnall needs @ least a couple of weeks off to get his knee right. A couple of games in the 2's may not even hurt him, I don't care if he's captain.

Hartlett to come in for Lance, he has showed some promise and deserves a chance.

Unfortunatly I don't think DP and Lappin see eye 2 eye and unless (until?!) Pagan goes we may not see Lappin @ his best. Tough situation.

I like Wggins, he may not be super quick or talented, but he's gutsy and always has a redhot go. I like his endevour. If he was to go then I would probably bring Bower in.

I'm not upset at all with our rucks, from memory we have at least broken even in every game xcept last week. 5/6 is'nt too bad, and these guys contribute around the ground a lot more than our rucks have in previous years.

These are my thoughts anyway, great thread people, some interesting discussion!

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1. Walker,
2. Menzel,
3. Murphy,
4. Gibbs,
5. Judd.

Why does everyone think that bringing in kids will fix our problems and believe that they can step up to the plate 1st game? You don't bring a kid into the side unless you intend on playing him for the next 5 weeks irrespective of how bad they play. Something that very few on this site would do. Even with a very talanted player in Gibbs, it took him all the NAB cup to adjust to the pace and intensity of the game. How can you expect guys like jacksons to come into the side and play to the standard of hoops let alone better than him. Man there are too many tv coaches that have don't understand the game on this site.

I think its convenient to want to drop Houla for lack of accountability when, whilst he was better last week, Bower has been constantly sprayed by Mitchell for exactly that. Houla may be soft as flower, but at least he gets the pill and delivers it (I wish he could do both). Bower is not the answer at this point, though I'd love to see him get a game anyway.

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Cheerio to my friends KN, BC, TT, GP, DK, AE, MS, SC, TC, JL, MO & LF

Hoops is a wingman not a defender.

player Bower or Anderson in the pocket and use Hoops as a link man.

He has great disposal and runs all night.

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They coud'nt.....could they?

Please enough of the Wiggo has a red hot go. What is the point of the great effort he puts in to get the ball and then immediately turn it over with poor or sloppy disposal. Inevitably leading to the opposition scoring as we are caught on the rebound. In some cases it may be better for the team that Wiggo does not win the contested ball, but rather that he create a stoppage.

This has been our problem for too long, players whose commitment cannot be questioned but poor skills and decision making undoing any of the good work they do.