I made a comment to Italian Styles at the game on Saturday night that i was going to steer clear of the main board here to avoid the backlash that the team were going to cop. I went against my better judgement and have been keeping a bit of an eye on the rumblings here over the last 2 days and what has been going on makes me @#$%&! sick.

Scotland's picking up cheap possessions, houlihan and whitnall are holding us back, whats his name isnt contributing, thingo cant kick, that guy doesnt go in hard enough, pagan has our game plan all wrong, we are shit.

The endless bullshit that has surfaced over the last few days, since the loss, is sickening.

Real supporters, real lovers of the club dont sink the boot in at the first opportunity they get. Real lovers of the club look for positives, offer encouragement, provide alternatives. Not shit can the club and everyone involved.

For example-How abut we comment on the performances of M.Murphy and B.Gibbs, who at a combined total of less that 20 games are exhibiting some of the most positive signs i have seen come from the navy blue in quite a number of years.

How about we comment on the continued development of A.Walker who's run and rebound have really started to develop and his continued work on his disposal is paying divdends.

How about we comment on the forward work of Ackland and ground covered on the night by an extremely fit and mobile C.Cloke.

And instead of cannign our forward line and canning our disposal into the forwards how about we offer alternatives, like-if fev is triple teamed, that leaves two free players, kick it to them or dont flood the forward line, we have the best full forward in the league so let him run the forward line.

For christs sake, Geelong showed on Saturday night they bare a good side, yeah, our game was lacking and our endeavours werent quite what they have been in the last 6 weeks but we have the second youngest list in the friggin comp.

We ARE going to be inconsistent. we ARE learning, we ARE going to have defeats to go with the wins.

I'm not wearing rose coloured glasses, im not saying there are all positives at all, hell, the form of one L.Whitnall is worrying, the disposal into the forwards is worrying but for gods sake, we are a young side. we are developing, learing, and maturing all the time.

It is important to have these losses, important to learn from them, important to learn how to prevent them from happening and learning what it feels like to lose.

We will get there, i have no doubt, but the biggest negative to come out of this weekends loss is the constant stream of crap eminating from the mouths of so called "supporters"

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice

Well said bnz.

I'm not sure what annoys me more, those who yo-yo up or down after each game and whose opinion on players or the team are only based on the last game, or those who bring out the exact same criticisms (always of the same players) after every loss, regardless of what actually happened during the game.

I'd like to agree with you BNZ, but we have copped far too many 10+ goal losses over the last few years to just sit back and think that we have to have these losses to learn etc.

I just get very concerned that DP doesn't seem to be able to counteract when we are getting thrashed. At the start of this season I thought if we only have 2 10 goal losses then I'll be happy, I wanted to scrap out every game. We have already had one thrashing and I can see that we will keep up our 1 n 4 thrashings ratio - I hope I am wrong.

I also understand that we need to play some players who wouldn't get games at other clubs - due to the fact that they are stronger and have experience etc, but lets not talk about them as if they are superstars, for gods sake, if one more person talks about Wiggins as if he is actually good I will be sick. Yes he tries hard and has great spirit and attitude but has no skill whatsoever.

Sorry if I have turned your positive thread into a negative, I'm just depressed that it looks like another long season ahead, Gee I hope I am wrong though!

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

What is Pagans record for over 50 point losses.
Are we still that bad?

Of course were not that bad... but he doesnt have a clue on whats going on and what the trends are...

Lance captain in this day and age?????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I think you are going to be wrong, kk.

There will be far more positives than negatives this year, even in defeat.

You learn far more about yourself in defeat than in victory.

Like I said in the Pro/Con thread, yeah, we got done by 13 goals, but last year the scoreline would have been 110-32, at least we appeared to have kept going and scoring, even after the game was out of our grasp, and ended up with 84 points.

I can see things happening from that.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I can give you over 60 point losses

Pagan's Hall of Shame

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

..

no coach in the competition would have stemmed these results.

No coach in the competition should be allowed to have those results. Every body is (or should) be accountable. The buck stops at the door of the coach. I know we are on the outside looking in but to me there is one glaring weakness and it was eveident over the previous 5 games and the past 4 years. DP is yesterday's man, our young men deserve better than what he can provide.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

a coach is judged what results he can manufacture from the cattle on the park.
$400.000 in prize money is a hell lot more than majority of clubs in the competition.
if pagan is going to be crucified with these results, then he has to be praised for the current young crop of players on the park, no?
otherwise its just a pathetic witch hunt.

I wouldn't go so far to say that it is a witch hunt just looking for answers and the current coach is struggling to provide them. How else can you explain Saturday night's performance. Any coach worth their salt should have contingency plans when it turns against his side. Indications are that the incumbent does not. It will be interesting to see what happens this weekend.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

There have been some massive blunders and whilst Denis has had it rough he has also contributed to it.
Also, hes on mega bucks and those kind of results could have been forwarded by any rookie coach.
You get paid big bucks to get good results.

after four years the guy is a failure .. his game plan has been forcedly changed... his people have been stripped from him because he hasnt been in tune with the trends ... he has been living in the past.
I know Denis has tried his guts out.. but he is not capable .. and im sure he has no answers.. he might cling onto the fact that there are a few kids coming up but that wont save him....he doesnt get football circa 2007 and beyond

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Every coach in the competition would've had those result with the players we've had on the field over the last five years.

I agree with you... Denis' crowning glory is the top 5 picks and the coveted number 1 picks he has managed to secure for us..

Thanks Denis.!!.. one more year and goodbye!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

after winning a few on the trott, with a very young side, we were bound to stumble one along the way. it's just a minor set back to my eye.
geelong is a machine, they are in their mid 20's and have bodies like tanks. yeah it was an embarassing loss...but it's an indication of where we need to get to with the current crop of players. we are going to have a few more of these losses ufortunately against teams that are built like absolute tanks and drilled like a well oiled machine.
cats will play in a premiership, winning it is another story but they will be in top four.

Wow, that's full on.... that's a whole season of 10+ goal losses.

We've had these arguments over and over again for a few years now.

I'm not sure I really care any more. If we win that's great, if we lose I'm not going to lose any more sleep over it.

I appreciate your point bnz, but in the end I think people will want to use these sorts of boards to vent their spleens because what else can they do? It's not like they can do anything to change the situation.

The next few weeks will indicate where we are and whether Pagan can cut it. Simple.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

pagan has been cutting it for the past 20 years.

its called people,s opinions