This is our Tex, they are talking about, right???

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

Who goes eh??

Get rid of both of them. Pagan at seasons end and Mitchell soon after.... Only because the Bullants will play finals.

And just out of curiosity would Pagan get another senior gig , and who with ??

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

I'd like to know the context in which Pagan agreed with Shaw's statement on Tex.

This is year 4 for Tex, so any poor performances shouldn't be written off as only a youthful lack of experience. And I'd agree.

Has he put in a poor performance this year? Kicking issues aside - no.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

..

I actually think Denis is either stupid or he is doing it on purpose. (Get rid of Mitchell or pay me out)

But he is a @#$%&! idiot the way he has conducted himself.
He has absolutely no connection with alot of people at Carlton.Whether they be players.. former players.. or coaches and admin.

Denis and Carlton were never meant to be together.... Barassi knew it.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad wrote a beauty:



GOLD!

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

What I'd like to know is this:

Today, after the weekend's games, Pagan should be able to sit down with Mitchell and spend time together, during which Mitchell debriefs Pagan on the Carlton-listed player's performance in the Bullants:

what roles were assigned, what instructions were given, who responded well/poorly to feedback, etc. All the things that you wouldn't necessarily see as a result of merely spectating.

If Pagan and Mitchell can't do that, then one of them should be fired immediately. Full stop.

Surely it isn't as bad as Pagan telling Ratten to go ask Mitchell and then Mitchell telling Ratten to go tell Pagan...

surely

Can anyone answer this?

He'll read the paper.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 95,00.html

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 62,00.html



Sorry Denis but the days of the senior coach running the club are well gone.
Thankfully.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I can just hear Denis... "boys you have to stick together.. strength through unity.. you have to push aside or your differences and work for each other.. youre out there representing your club.. the army of supporters that pay good money to watch us each year.. youre not out there representing yourselves... "

Look after a few years of shithouse results and a gameplan that he has been forced to change and one stupid decision after another he has little credibility left.
Im sure noone believes in him when he opens up his mouth ..
Its about belief!!

No credibility left

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

When it comes to developing young players, I think Pagan has done a good job since being in charge. Walker is on the verge of becoming an absolute star, and much of that can be put down to Pagan's input. I remember watching Walker playing against the Bulldogs in Darwin a couple of seasons ago, and he was terrible, especially in his accountability of an opponent, whereas now he has an excellent defensive game.

Simpson (although subdued at the moment) has turned into a terrific wingman, who has attacking flair and will continue to improve.

Our young blokes are progressing well, and credit for that goes to both Pagan and Mitchell.

The ongoing issue with Pagan is what happens on match-day. Apart from the fact we were beaten by a better quality team that was 'up' for the game, we appeared to have no plan other than 'Kick it to Fev!'. We had no plan for slowing the game's pace to break Geelong's rhythm and our forward line appeared to have an attitude of "Let's get everyone inside the forward 50 metre arc" when our backline had possession. This didn't seem to be Geelong flooding, but our players initiating the crowding.

Against an average ruck division, we had no idea how to rove the opposition, and considering how we have the worst ruck combination in the AFL, I think this would be an important tactic to have in our armoury.

Even though we have a young side, we have no leadership to control the team's behaviour or discipline. Instead of trying to match Geelong's pace, we should've attempted to control the ball more and slow the game down. We have some excellent ball handlers in Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs etc, so the potential was there for us to take the initiative, but we don't have the leadership or planning for that to happen.

It's only round two, so it's not time to knock off heads, but the same problems we had with Pagan in 2006 are surfacing again, and no amount of spin from him and the club is going to make them go away.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

Denis' biggest enemy is his own pride.

Too bloody-minded and stubborn. Completely inflexible in his 'beliefs'.

He will not change his ways so I think that Swann & Icke must get RP's support to end Pagans tenure and return some unity & flexibility to the coaching ranks.

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There's so much I could say...

://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21524546%255E19762,00.html





try to stay out of a lot of this but when I read that I just wanted Pratt to ring Denis up and say 'the cheque's in the mail @#$%&! off!'

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Personally i give both there marching orders this is starting to become to much a dead weight in our club

Go to both Pagan and Mitch and tell em sort it out or both of you can continue your bickering else where.

The issue is if it is having a negative affect on the kids or recruits and starts to put a playing for the bullants vs playing for the seniors mentality.

Personally The Blues are now in a position to execute changes if needed IE RP, Swan and Icke are all post all this BS and if this continues to run stories on a daily basis and even more so has a negative affect on our youth then get rid of them both.

I have heard enough from Ratts to feel he could take care of the list for the rest of 2007 with the understanding that he does well he will be in the mix for a permanent gig depending who else is on offer.

Corsisca or Libba can work with the Bullants though we prob need to get someone else in.

So DP and Mitch the club can make changes now so fix things up

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

Quote//www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21524546%255E19762,00.html



Dirty in house laundry aired in public...what a silly conversation to engage in from a grown up man. I have one thing to say to that: "Grow up Dennis"

Whatever the situation I want this out of the media spotlight. I smell a rat, and for the first time I'm starting to believe that Pagan means trouble....I'm not too sure that Mitchell is the instigator.

You're losing me Pagan.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

They continue this situation for too much longer both become pretty tainted in my eye and am certain it has a negative effect on training / match day and player developement especially if both coaches send different messages and neither comunicate with each other.

Imagine players who play under Mitchell and then come of the senior list knowing neither coach comunicates and hates each other.

Personally if this continues will be happy to see the end of both and they can continue there fued elsewhere

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

I agree Wolfe, it's an absurd situation for a professional football club to be in.

When the history surrounding this is written a few years hence, I think you'll find that the Board/Admin was caught out being too smart by half when they reappointed Mitchell. The following is my theory, which I think fits the sad history of what has happened since. It isn't based on sources or personal knowledge.

Sticks and Gleeson, both described in articles over the last week as close friends of Mitchell, have their fingerprints all over the disastrous invitation to Mitchell to present to the Board for Pagan's job. To think they (and anyone else involved) did this without sounding Mitchell out as they were completing their review is naive.

Once the plan to instal Mitchell fell apart at the infamous Board meeting in October, the best interests of the club clearly required Mitchell's head as it should have been chrystal clear that there would be no reconciliation between Mitchell and Pagan. I think we'll find out in years to come that Sticks and Gleeson didn't have the ruthlessness to allow this to happen and were more interested in helping out a mate and saving their own reputations.

You'll recall from the media reports that when Pagan returned from holidays, he was told that Mitchell would stay and he made his position clear at that time.

My guess is that the following happened. Pagan pointed out that he was contractually entitled to select the staff under him in the football department or at least veto someone he didn't want. To avoid this problem, Sticks or Malouf or whoever was on point duty at the time argued that he only had rights over the football department and not the football administration department into which he would nominally be transferred. To further enhance this distinction, Mitchell ceased to be called an assistant coach and was subsequently transferred from the offices shared by the football department staff and was rehoused in the Football Admin offices on the opposite side of the ground.

Either during that initial meeting, or later, Pagan would have pointed out that the distinction was non-existent as legally and practically the VFL coach was a vital part of the football department. He would have been met with the disingenuous observation that the Bullants and Carlton were separate entities and there was no need for Pagan to liaise with him.

No doubt the hope was that Pagan would be cowed into accepting this fiction, and he would accept that Mitchell remained as part of his staff. After all, he had been cowed into firing Mulkearns and Trout to retain his position, and Smorgon was not going to help him out.

Unfortunately, whoever was behind this cunning plan miscalculated. Malouf tried to maintain the fiction in his media interviews, but it became clear from the reaction of the journos that this was never going to fly.

When Pratt took over, he honoured Sticks as Vice-President and declared he'd be the boss of the footy side of things. That was the politic thing to do as Sticks was and is an important figurehead at the club. But he would have been disgusted at his involvement in setting up conflict in the footy department. Stick's power will have been dramatically eroded as a result of this debacle and the debacle surrounding the October Board Meeting. His interview with Caro in which he tried to distance himself from the decisions about Pagan and apologised for his attitude to the press might be a sign he's trying to reclaim lost ground.

Meanwhile, Pratt has made it clear that this situation is unacceptable. But the problem he, and his appointee Swann, are faced with is that legally he can't require Pagan to give in. To do so would be a concession that the club has breached its contract with Pagan by reappointing and retaining Mitchell. And if the club is in breach, it can't purport to sack Pagan for holding the club to its position that the positions are separate and there is no need for them to work together.

Pratt might seek to intimidate Pagan into submitting by threatening to sack him either now or at the end of the year if he won't. But Pagan is a tough old bird, and might think that Pratt won't do this because the club would have to pay him out. And he may well be willing to take the risk that Pratt follows through anyway.

One thing that Pratt might do to break the deadlock is to offer a carrot to Pagan instead. Those who want to see the back of Pagan might not want to see that happen.

The are 2 other possibilities. Mitchell might be sacked, or the stand-off will continue through the year. Sacking Mitchell would involved paying him out and paying another coach to take over. It may be a fait accompli that can't be undone now, and that's the position that Sticks argued in his interview with Caro. He even stooped to suggesting that it was a mistake to sack Mulkearns and Trout, and it would be wrong to make the same mistake with Mitchell. Pagan's comments to Shaw may well be regarded as his response to those claims. If the stand-off persists, Sticks will be left dangling in the breeze. That will keep the pressure on Sticks, and will help Pagan as it will weaken Sticks power and influence on footballing matters.

Of course, you may well say that this is all fantasy and guesswork. But ask yourself this - if the club had the power to direct him to work with Mitchell face-to-face, and had the power to sack him without any payout if he disobeyed, what are the chances that Pagan would disobey?

From what I read in "The Age" a while ago one of the Icke's jobs was to groom a new young coach. The artilce went further to say that the club considered Mitchell "long-term"at the club , given the excellent job he'd done, and Pagan "short-term" so Mitchell was never going to get sacked. I also read the "dispute" was from one side. Mitchell was willing to talk to Pagan but Pagan refused to talk to Mitchell. If Denis doesn't want to talk then pay him out and p!ss him off. He's been terrible here anyway. The sh!t list excuse is now gone. That excuse pretty well went last year, which made 3 wins very disappointing. Lucky for Denis we had no money at the time.

Mark Robinson mentioned on SEN last week that there were still underlying tensions at the club and was "worried" that our recent performances and positives news was simply just painting over the cracks. Interesting to see if he is right.

This whole saga is like a messy divorce, and the players are the kids stuck in the middle of it. We will not win to many games this year if there id no unity in the coaching ranks especially when we are short of on field leaders who would fill the role of big brothers for the younger kids in the club. The problem is that the time to sack Pagan is after round 12 not now, no prospective coach would apply for the job so early in the season and they would like to see some stability in the board before accepting a job with us.