Of course they're happier! ...they now seek council from Ratts Bradley & Crosisca instead of trout.

"Pagan & his paycheck OUT by 2008!!"

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There's so much I could say...

I was fortunate enough to attend the guensey presentaion night on Wednesday.

I got to have a candid chat with a few of the players, for quite a while too. In fact, long enough to loosen them up a bit, to make them comfortable enough to give their opinion and state their position on Pagan.

It was clear enough to me that Pagan is not a (negative) factor as many posters suggest. The group is focussed and have one common goal and intent....to be winners and move forward.

One funny comment made was that Pagan is predictable in what he says to the media and at presentations..."...heard it [statements/ Paganisms] for 2 years..." but one on one, it was stated that Pagan is focussed on the players' strengths and moreso their weaknesses, in an attempt to develop them personally as well as their team focus.

So, I would say that Pagan is not a factor in stifling player and team improvement from what I was told...each an every player is responsible for the upkeep of commonly agreed team rules and team goals.

All things seem pretty healthy atm at Carlton. The only contoversy that is raised in the media is the so called 'unhealthy' relationship between Pagan and Mitchell...and that's about it.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Who cares what the players think. I read a post from a bloke who inbetween Star Trek Forum visits he comes on here and makes up, I mean tells us what is realy going on at Carlton, and he reckons they all hate Pagan......

Players mouths.....blah!

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Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

I heard if you tape what a player says and then hold the tape deck upside down - well then it gets really interesting....


Mind you I heard if you hold Caz upside down he gets really interesting too...sorry Mrs C I know I promised.....

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

With respect Bondi, the players wouldnt be stupid enough to share information of that nature at a club function!
Especially with a relative stranger.

They are there to represent the club.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

And yet for a long time, we've been told that unnamed players talk to complete strangers in bars or the like and let fly with vicious appraisals of Pagan. Seems the rule is that we can only accept accounts of negative statements from players.

I'm just giving a high level account of what was said.

Believe me...there was a bit of shit stirring about Pagan's style.

But I do understand when you (BV) suggest that



Fair point too!

I'm not so green so as to believe everything I hear...but just sharing a viewpoint I heard... and edited at that...lets just say I got an idea of what they thought.

I just don't believe that the players hate Pagan...generally speaking.

I've heard McGrath, Campo and Beaumont don't like Pagan...but I didn't get that info directly from them.

Me personally, I couldn't give a rats about him either way.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

..

Eye of the beholder mate.....look....if you re read my 3 or 4 posts praising Wallsy.....it's just like one or two of us seeing a movie completely differently from the other.....doesn't mean the movie is necessarily good or bad....E.G. "Extras" is raved about by a lot of posters; and yes he's very clever; but Cleese/Tony Hancock et al IMO are funnier than him.....we're all different!

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

I'd rate Hart and Carey better but Walls was an excellent player - and he kicked 10 in a game from CHF - I'd say that was dominating.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Talking of the 30.30 game against Hawthorn....we often think how lucky we were that day to be at PP.....Ian Robertson kicked the 30th goal that day; and he was playing on the wing but.....he was the BEST drop kick exponent EVER at Carlton IMO.....PP memories.....

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

Walls played in an era where we were either top dog or about to be; and we had so many talented players that perhaps I took him for granted.

Yes.....he's the best CHF I've seen at Carlton excepting Mark Maclure and Steven Kernahan but.....not in the same league as Royce Hart or Wayne Carey or even Jonathan Brown; as far as being able to completely "take over" a game.....but he was part of a brilliant "set" of players who played for Carlton in that golden era.

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

i've seen a lot of the Blues earlier games & in my opinion - Mark McClure was a much better CHF than Walls ever was, McClure put his body on the line time & time again & created a lot more opportunities to team mates than Wallsy did - imo

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We will be back as a force - keep watchin this space !!

It is unfair to take 1 players strengths and then use them to compare to the other player. I loved Maclure and I think Walls was a champion.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Cant recall Maclure dominating a game like Walls did on occassions but can remember him being double teamed a lot.

Walls for me cause he had ability to dominate games - Maclure often got to carried away with the biff and used to lay the odd cheap shot .I vaguely remember a time where he was shifted to CHB because he was struggling - Cant recall Walls ever being moved

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

One of my favourite days at the footy, that game. Two of the goals were torpedo punts from outside the boundary line in front of the Hawthorn Stand that spiralled unerringly through the sticks.

Hart's the only reason that Walls isn't remembered as the pre-eminent CHF of the late 60's throught the mid 70's and he was still going strong when Royce's career had already wound down. Walls was, IMO, undoubtedly an out-and-out champion whose great ability was to bring out the best of the forwards around him whilst still managing to be damaging in his own right.

We've been blessed with some great CHFs in the time that I've been watching the club and the formula that Carlton used to operate on was Full Back + Centre Half Forward + Ruck = Premierships.

So we had Lofts, Southby and Silvagni at FB - Nicholls, Jones, Fitzpatrick et al in ruck and Walls, McClure (another criminally underrated player), and Kernahan controlling our forward line.

didn't he start as a back man and then went forward? - ahh the grog steals so much!!!!!!!!!

but then it also gets me pissed

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

MacLure started in the backline, from memory, and took over from Walls after Ian Stewart "took sick" at training after round 6 1978 ....

walls>>>>>>>>>>>mcclure

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Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

approaching???????