This is what I hope to get out of the season. Not a comprehensive list by any stretch. Pagan needs to focus on 2009-10 not 2007-8 when his contract expires. The club needs to make it clear that his job security depends on team development more than a win/loss ratio

1. Josh kennedy needs to play half-forward every game he is fit for at lleast 80%game -time. If there is something he needs to work on at VFL level, I'll accept a week.

2. Setanta needs to be our FB, plain and simple. No dragging him if Lloyd kicks 3 in a 1/4 or Hall is towelling him up. Move him upfield if a better match arises but he needs gametime a plenty. Same deal with jarrad although he can swing forward at times.

3. Bower and Hartlett need to be played in preference to saddington, Teague and Wiggins. I would want at least 15 games for these guys.

4. Murphy and Gibbs, I'm not worried about. these guys wont have a Bullants jumper dirty their skin.

5. Edwards, Raso, Blackwell all need runs in the seniors. Not 15min off the bench for 2 weeks. 4 week runs 50min + with definite roles.

6. If it comes to a choice between Lappin Wiggins and Kouta or Russell and Blackwell/Bentick/Carazzo for game time, go for the latter every time even in the clutch

7. I dont want to see saddington or Teague play very much at all, Bannister I'd give a bit more leeway

8. I'll leave discusiion on the 2006 draftees to those that have seen them training and for when the season starts but if they earn game time, let them have it

_________________
T E A M

1. Win 4 or less

_________________
They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

We will never have an opportunity to add 2 x Top 4 Draft Picks to our list again for the next 10 years at least (without having to trade the known world first) - this is a perfectly acceptable wish.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

At the end of the season we realise we have some depth in our list because it is going to be fairly difficult to delist more than 6 players to allow us to promote two rookies, and feature in the National Draft and PSD.

_________________
Supporting the Blues No Matter What

where is Carlton God?

_________________
dane's trolling again

Do you actually think so little of our playing group as to suggest that they cannot dominate this competition during their peak playing years (24 - 28yo)?

Do you honestly believe that the current clubs at the top of the list are going to get that far away in front of us with pick 17 in the ND/

Do you honestly think that Essendon*, as they are the only other club eligible, are going to suck it up so bad that they win just 4 games? If that is the case, do you honestly think that they, with the list they have, will be able to compete with us during our team's peak playing years by adding three of the country's top 20 17/18 year old kids?

Are you so pessimistic as to imagine that our current staff will ever lose the grip on list management as badly as the staff in the late 1990's?

DAMN!

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

I actually think our playing group is pretty good, and I think that Pick 2 and 3 from this years National Draft will make it better.

I dont give a flying @#$%&! what Essendon* do.

Crusader - your thinking is tired and old school - you still expect a cheque book and for us to recruit a Kernahan, Bradley and Motley.

Earth to Crusader - Form 4's were made redundant a long time ago.

Wake up a smell the reality of the situation the talent we need at our club comes through the National Draft, it doesn't come through the Bendigo Zone - it doesn't come through deep sixing an Anthony Koutoufides through an Under 19s program.

Pessimistic no I dont think so - I am realist - you are in cloud cuckoo land.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Yes let's become St Kilda and have a losing culture. All those high draft picks have won them so many premierships. Lets see a few more joining Thornton, Russell (& Campo) looking for a fresh start at a club that wins games (but don't worry, we'll use our 1st pick in the PSD to force them to stay).

Winning the first two games of the year would be nice

A losing culture is 100 years of tripe and 25 last place finishes, and 25,000 members who share a half a dozen brain cells and a few rotten teeth.

Campo is no great loss - and game time for Simpson is the best result this club could ever have had. Players like Thornton and Russell will not want to leave a club with the structures being put into place this year with Pratt, Icke, Swann not matter where we finish.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

No I think it's a good list - but I'd hate to see us really peak but pull up a star or two short of beating a non Vic team to a premiership.

As for Essendon*, agree they won't qualify for a PP. Lloyd's return & Michael will see to that. All the more reason for us to get the jump on them when we can & properly get something out of this.


Sorry to sidetrack the thread btw...I'd really like to see Grigg get a few games...just something about him that I am looking forward to seeing play in big games. And a big year from Russell too; I don't have a problem seeing him continue his role from the NAB Cup & learning from the best.

Have fun supporting the Tigers this week.

The Form 4s are in the mail.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

My 2007 wish list is that we finish last again so we will get the first two round picks and pickup Judd for free in the Pre Season Draft, not a bad sacrifice to make is it.

Only Joking really, but at the same time how great our future will look with the additional players and a probable a Premiership next year.

I'm not so sure you're right about this AGRO. All the Pratts, Swanns and Ickes in the world won't change the fact that 4 wins this year would be very hard on the team. What ever else is going on at the club, it's near impossible to maintain a positive feel within the team when you lose most weeks. Especially coming on the back of two spoons, another one would be very hard to take.

Thus, if we really do finish bottom with 4 wins then I wouldn't be surprised to see other clubs making plays for our young players. There are quite a few out of contract this year and I think you're being naive saying that we wouldn't be at risk of losing some players if we have another very disappointing year on field.

Another bottom finish will not only tear our club apart but guarantee us losing "quality" kids. Enough with the "tanking".

If I have to listen to this shit for 1 more day let alone another year, I'm going to commit myself.

Look, the club is clearly going places this year we have seen some significant changes to our administrative personel.

If Pratt can snare an incumbent CEO from another AFL Club - whats to stop him snaring an incumbent Coach from another AFL Club that will give the players hope and motivation for season 2008 no matter where we finish this year.

All I have said all along is we have a unique opportunity this season to add another 2 top 4 draft picks to our list this year - we may not have this opportunity again for the next 10/15 years (god I hope so).

The National Draft is the only way to get good young talent on your list - however we still have delusional people out there who think we still have a stash of Form Fours or a few bush stars hiding up in the Bendigo Leagues to call on.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I haven't seen anyone mention Form 4s or bush stars or anything. Just people who believe that our current list, plus a first and second rounder each year from now on will be able to challenge for a flag (if developed correctly).

Are they right? I have no idea, but I hope so.

I just think that you're over playing the effect that off-field improvements will have on young players who will have finished bottom 3 years in a row.

I think we'll be at significant risk of losing players to clubs which will inevitably start circling with cheque books out. Whilst even if we lose a player or two, the picks we get might compensate, there's definitely no certainties here.

Moving up the ladder this year, receiving say pick 5 and pick 21 and developing our list is one way forward. Finishing bottom with 4 wins and picks 1 and 2 is another way forward.

Both have advantages and disadvantages and one, both or neither may lead to a flag. It's not clear cut. There most certainly isn't one right and one wrong answer, so calling people delusional is rubbish and says more about yourself than them. We don't all see the future panning out the same way, and more picks is one way, but leave the insults out.

When do we stop collecting Top 4 draft picks?

If we finish bottom this year and receive another 2 early draft picks, will we be sitting here in a years time with the same people telling us 'yeh but if we just get 2 more picks we'll be set for the next 10 years'?

Make the Finals

The boys believe

So do I

_________________
No Guts, No Glory