There was one passage of play last night where every single Geelong player was manned up with a Blue either at arm's length or in front of and the Geelong player had to wait.

Then one Geelong player got free. This was pointed out by channel 9 commentators. Who was the Carlton player who was lazy?

Heath Scotland. Is it little wonder that he was benched for most of the night?

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

begs the questions clem, and i know i'm naive and stupid , how does a coach with pagan's fierce reputation as a disciplinarian and a huge disciple of accountability etc tolerate having a midfield as lazy and poorly disciplined as our one?

even sellers and stan alves on 3LO spoke today of the fact that kouta, stevo and campo don't man up or chase back (you can add scotland to that mix).

for a side acknowledged as poor, that's a frighteningly high percentage of unaccountable midfielders!!

just doesn't make sense!! is pagan just keeping some guys names in the papers so he can trade them? or have i just bought too much into the mantra that pagan is a genius?

jai guru pay-gan .... ommmmmm

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

Yes it does beg the question doesn't it maxy?

But what else does Pagan have?

Exactly.

Squat. Especially when these contracts are in place...

I'm starting to sound like Synbad, which is dangerous, sorry S , but we need a new midfield that is willing to run back and help the defence when in trouble and push forward to create options going forward.

It's not just that Stevens, Camporeale etc., don't chase and be accountable - which is true, they don't - but they also in the last couple of weeks haven't moved forward and provided extra options and numbers running through the middle and also to provide a contest in the forward half and helped out the forwards.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Is there anything they actually do do, Clem?

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

We had 3 goalkickers, the Cats something like 12. Our midfield was standing around scratching it's collective arse while their opponents went down and kicked goals.

our youngsters are crucified by a coach with a lack of faith in them

I would like to see our team resemble something like this at one stage this year

Norman/Hartlett Livo Teague
Carazzo Thornton Simpson
Houlihan Bentick Russell
Walker Waite Whitnall
Fisher/Betts Fevola Lappin

French Koutoufides Stevens

I/C - Wiggins, O'Hailpin, Campo, Sporn

Next year we trade Fev for some top picks or established big bodied/agressive midfielders
Draft KP players

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

And who would these "big-bodied/agressive midfielders" kick the ball to if Fev is part of the deal?

We shouldn't trade Fev under any circumstances.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Fisher, Waite, Whitnall(on reduced pay), Setanta or a quality KP early draft pick.

We have forward options - we need to make the hard calls to move forward and we dont have much else to offer up other than Fev

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Trade Fev, keep Whitnall???? WTF!

Why would you trade a bloke who is among the top FF in the league? So what he drops his head. Most of the so called supporters left the ground before the game finished, should we cancel their memberships?

The last 2 weeks have been dissapointing to all, but lets not get stupid about this.

I'd trade both of them if i could - but i dont think we could get anything for Whitnall so may as well keep him.

The fact he is a top FF in the league is why we should trade him. I know that seems like a contradiction but it really would help our progression through what we could get for him. Be that two top 10 picks, a star and a pick, or whatever.

As others have stated Fev is wasted with us and we should get what we can now.

We have other forward options and could even snare a beauty KP player in the draft with say 2 top 5 picks and 5 or 6 of the top 20

I dont think that is stupid at all.

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

*yawn*

you guys ever tire from bagging the players?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Yes our midfielders can play unaccountable football, but it's the bloody turnovers that make us look unaccountable.

Our midfielders are often busting their ass to move the ball forward then all of a sudden we can't hit a target 40 metres ahead and then the ball comes back and all our players are left stranded.

Yes it looks like it's unaccountable football but you must make the play and hit a bloody target if not good sides will punish us.

Any doubters, watch the first term of last nights game again and you will see how many goals Geelong scored due to our soft turnovers.

For god sake learn how to hit a target and give our forwards a chance.

Not enough A grade Chiefs..too many C grade Indians...and the same old story I have repeated for years..too many kids with schoolboy bodies....Josh Hunt looked so mature he could have been the father of some our kids....Geelong have gone for big bodied kids who have only got bigger.....Wiggins and co play with great heart and bravery but dont have the Gary Ablett type builds who can shrug tackles etc....Bartel, Enright, Corey etc are just too strong in the body...

Recruit some kids who have the right size body shape to play the game.....why cant we just for once try it...Brent Maloney who the Cats gave the flick would have been perfect...already built up....ready for action...unlike ours who are always 3 years away from the ideal starting weight...when are we going to wake up...even an idiot like Gary Lyon made the comment we look so weak like an U!5 team..he was right...

Oh i would kill for Moloney !!!

I was hoping so hard we would heavily chase him during the trade period

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

elwood, i'm asking not to be critical, but simply cos i don't know .... what were the bodies like on those geelong boys when they were recruited?

were they also skinny kids who spent 5 or 6 years developing? or were they big kids from day 1? like i said, i don't know what they were like, but let's not forget that this geelong side has been a work in progress for a while now.

however, as i mentioned elsewhere, to see a guy like davies who has been in the system for 5 years looking as thin as i am .... well it's just very disappointing!

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

The vast majority of the Geelong boys are from the 1999-2001 drafts, so they have had some time to bulk up.

On an age/weight scale Geelong are top of the tree at the moment. In other words they are one of the younger teams and also one of the heavier teams in the competition at the same time. Awesome combination.

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Josh Hunt was a big unit when recruited...ditto for Moloney....I'm not sure about Corey, Bartel etc , Chapman was also built up but they all looked bigger than our blokes when they started.....and they have Nathan Ablett sat in the twos who is also about 93kg...

Cooney is doing well because he as some size and SA senior experience...Jordan Lewis is a 85Kg starting weight player for Hawthorn...Clarkson's recruiting theme was so obvious..Franklin, Roughead, Lewis...all ready to play...no waiting for three years to get to a starting weight position... they can all look after themselves...

All as I am asking is look at getting U 18 players who have decent dimensions to start with.....sure recruit some flyweights if they have Daniel Wells type skills but blend them with some Brent Maloney or Josh Hunt types who can do the grunt work...

just on that jarusa, i remember reading during the pre-season that the geelong list had collectively gained over 100 kgs.

i look at geelong as a team that has taken small steps over a 5 - 6 year period. they're reaping the rewards now.

of course, ablett (x 2 ??) and scarlett have just fallen into their laps.

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

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