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phoenix johnson
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:12 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Sydney Blue wrote:
Mercury - Have you been watching this side over the Pagan era they have had 4 or 5 of the worst defeats in Carltons History. I am soory but Pagan is not our man the game has moved on and we dont have a Carey - Mckernan -Longmire playing for us . this Guy has pinned the teams fortunes on the form of Fevola . I am sorry but I would have preferred Brttain.
Also the old administators would have tolerated three seasons of this rubbish . how long are we going to Give Pagan. 4 ,5 or 6 years and if he is not getting results then will we keep blaming Elliott


Brittain = nice guy who couldn't coach.
Pagan = hardcore and can coach.

I know who I'd rather have.

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spf
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:16 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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Mercury wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Pagan is not the man that is going to lead Carlton to the next Flag , we should have never signed him on for three years . In all my years of following The Blues i have never seen a side as badly coached as this one.
Cut Pagan now and start to rebuild as soon as possible


I'm sorry, I've got to disagree. The difference in our team from the Wayne Brittain era to the Pagan era was like moving light years ahead. This past month is the FIRST time I would've doubted him and that's not bad in a two and and a half year reign. He's obviously got players with a big discipline problem. I'm more interested in his attidude than his current plan b/c we don't know the recent constraints he's under. Maybe he's testing the young guys and blooding them. The proof will be in the pudding - come back to me in 12 months time...


Yep I agree Mercury. I think the 'blooding' might have already started. I suspect Pagan has already started down the road of preparing for 2006. I hope we play Bryan or Setanta next week (prefer Setanta because he's only got a couple of weeks left to play seniors). If Setanta were to come in I'd like to see him given the De Luca role for the remaining time and be pushed into the ruck to relieve Barnaby. I think he'd at least give an aggressive contest which will give Barnaby some relief in a long season.

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Sydney Blue
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:17 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Brittain nice gut who had a bad run with injuries
Pagan - Hardcore who created a rift amongst the players and lost their respect

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phoenix johnson
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Sydney Blue wrote:
Brittain nice gut who had a bad run with injuries
Pagan - Hardcore who created a rift amongst the players and lost their respect


Funnily enough most of those players aren't at Carlton anymore.
Might add another one to the list at the end of the year.

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GWS
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Brittain nice gut who had a bad run with injuries
Pagan - Hardcore who created a rift amongst the players and lost their respect


What a Massive post... 8)
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slow_mo
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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grrofunger wrote:
.......Flag - Hawthorn will win two

They have got some seriously skilled young kids - but more importantly a coach prepared to play them.


I'm sorry but I find that to be a ridiculous notion. I don't see the point of bringing a bunch of kids in and throwing them to the wolves. It doesn't help their development and neither does it help the team.

Last night we came up against a team that has been rebuilding for 5 or 6 years. They are at least 3 years ahead of us in terms of development, and last night it manifested itself in how easily our young players got pushed off the ball. We are a very young team that is also quite physically underdeveloped.

We still have a long way to go before we become a real finals contender, and that is just a fact that we all have to face up to.
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CarltonClem
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Sydney Blue wrote:
Either Sticks - Williams or Ratten - proper carlton men


:roll:

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Wojee
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:35 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Pagan coaching St Kilda over the last 3 years would've seen them make the grand final and maybe snag a couple of flags.
Thomas coaching Carlton over the last 3 years would've seen us finish last every year and finish with a percentage of 50.

Pagan is a good coach with a poor list of players, and the fact that we managed 10 wins last season with the talent at our disposal is testament to that fact.
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TheGame
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:58 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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A lot of Carlton supporters here seem to have a lot of knowledge of Grant Thomas' coaching methods. What has he done wrong at the Saints?
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phoenix johnson
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:00 pm 
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John Nicholls

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TheGame wrote:
A lot of Carlton supporters here seem to have a lot of knowledge of Grant Thomas' coaching methods. What has he done wrong at the Saints?


We don't have to.

It's clear if someone like a Pagan, Sheedy or Matthews was coaching at the club they would have won a flag by now.

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Sydney Blue
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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I keep hearing we have a poor list - Can someone tell me whats wrong with Kouta Campo Stevens Whitnall Fevola French houlihan Thorton Lappin Teague and even Young Eddie these guys are class players surely we can build as side around them

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TheGame
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:07 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Quote:
We don't have to.

It's clear if someone like a Pagan, Sheedy or Matthews was coaching at the club they would have won a flag by now.


Its clear is it? You don't think the 3 you've mentioned were ever novice coaches?
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The Tyrant
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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grrofunger wrote:
Where's our first rounder ???

carving it up for the bullants today !!


but what about his delicate sensibilities? what if he gets a splinter off the bench and develops a fear of hotdogs, and refuses to go to AFL matches? What if Jordan Russell turns out to be Dr Smith?

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Wojee
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:11 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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TheGame wrote:
A lot of Carlton supporters here seem to have a lot of knowledge of Grant Thomas' coaching methods. What has he done wrong at the Saints?


A couple of years ago there was an article in the Herald-Sun where the reporter spent the day in the coaches box with him. I wish I could find it online because it was a very interesting read. He'll have improved since then, but his performance on that day was nothing short of abysmal.

Taking the players to the movies instead of training was anything but a masterstroke as well.
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phoenix johnson
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:11 pm 
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John Nicholls

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TheGame wrote:
Quote:
We don't have to.

It's clear if someone like a Pagan, Sheedy or Matthews was coaching at the club they would have won a flag by now.


Its clear is it? You don't think the 3 you've mentioned were ever novice coaches?


Of course they were.
Pagan rocked up at North during 93 and had a flag in 96.
Sheedy, IIRC, started coaching in 1980 and had the Dons winning the flag in 84.
Matthews took a bit longer but I think the last 3 years speak for themselves. Also was able to coach Collingwood to a flag in 1990.

My point is, if someone of the calibre of Sheedy, Pagan or Matthews was coaching that team, they would have won a flag by now.

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TheGame
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:28 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Quote:
My point is, if someone of the calibre of Sheedy, Pagan or Matthews was coaching that team, they would have won a flag by now.


Went pretty close last year and I think they'll be hard to beat at full strength. Will Thomas earn respect as a coach after winning a premiership?[/b]
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maxyblue
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:31 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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phoenix johnson wrote:
TheGame wrote:
Quote:
We don't have to.

It's clear if someone like a Pagan, Sheedy or Matthews was coaching at the club they would have won a flag by now.


Its clear is it? You don't think the 3 you've mentioned were ever novice coaches?


Of course they were.
Pagan rocked up at North during 93 and had a flag in 96.
Sheedy, IIRC, started coaching in 1980 and had the Dons winning the flag in 84.
Matthews took a bit longer but I think the last 3 years speak for themselves. Also was able to coach Collingwood to a flag in 1990.

My point is, if someone of the calibre of Sheedy, Pagan or Matthews was coaching that team, they would have won a flag by now.


pj, shitty started at the bummers in 81.

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phoenix johnson
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:32 pm 
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John Nicholls

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TheGame wrote:
Quote:
My point is, if someone of the calibre of Sheedy, Pagan or Matthews was coaching that team, they would have won a flag by now.


Went pretty close last year and I think they'll be hard to beat at full strength. Will Thomas earn respect as a coach after winning a premiership?[/b]


Probably.
While it is only round 8, they have had too many injuries for mine and I doubt whether they have the depth to win a flag this year.

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grrofunger
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 7:54 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

grrofunger wrote:
Where's our first rounder ???

carving it up for the bullants today !!


but what about his delicate sensibilities? what if he gets a splinter off the bench and develops a fear of hotdogs, and refuses to go to AFL matches? What if Jordan Russell turns out to be Dr Smith?



:D too true tyrant - too true

thats the thinking round here and unfortuantely seems to be pagans thinking as well.

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Jarusa
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:39 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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The Tyrant wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
Where's our first rounder ???

carving it up for the bullants today !!


but what about his delicate sensibilities? what if he gets a splinter off the bench and develops a fear of hotdogs, and refuses to go to AFL matches? What if Jordan Russell turns out to be Dr Smith?


OH THE HUMANITY!!!
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