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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 6450
zoneman wrote:
I'd like to put in my two bobs worth. Butters and Thomas are fueding and one did go, but also let's remember not everyone gets along. Rumour has it that that saga hasn't ended either.

For what it's worth, someone should step in and get DP and BM to act like grown men and clear up any misunderstandings.

I personally think that Mitchell did not try to unseat Pagan. He was told that the job was up for grabs by Smorgan ,so he put together a presentation. The vacancy fell through for some unknown reason which we all still don't know why and BM was left holding the baby - a scapegoat.

For all we know he thinks the world of Pagan but did what was asked of him, and who wouldn't if you knew that your bosses job was up for grabs; and you had some qualification for it, and were asked to apply. He did nothing wrong an did not undermine DP as far as I can see.

RP should get them in a room and mediate at least a workable understanding between them. Instead of playing 'I know nutzing!', MM should also do something constructive.

As DP says, 'Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." No more games. Honesty, decency and maturity has to see through this and these men have to talk for the good of the club.

Something has to be sorted out now.


That's all well and fine to do that zman but Fraser Brown was spruiking in the media weeks before the board decision that he wanted Pagan gone. Fraser Brown and his allies wanted Mitchell in the job, it was Mitchell or no moola, that's what Brown was saying.

So after all that do you still think Mitchell had no idea way before the boardroom vote? Because if you do, yourself and others are very naive. Pagan is coach this year full stop, Mitchell needs to go. He created a position that has become untenable, he went for Pagan's job and missed it. Any normal person would put their tail between their legs and walk off into the sunset :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:58 am
Posts: 23
Location: UK
why didn't mitchell insit on presenting his case AFTER Dennis was sacked. I know that i wouldn't gun for someone's job if they were still employed in it!

it was poor judgement by him irrespective of whether the board asked him or not. he could have said I am happy to apply once the position becomes vacant.

cheers
k


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:15 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Correct me if I'm srong but I heard Fraser Brown live say that he wasn't sure about a Mitchell appointment and was intimating he was just an observer even though there may ghave been an approach for his financial assistance.

But it's all good. Everyone's point is good and we all want harmony, so we should strive whatever it takes but remembering that no workplace has complete harmony. There's always some disatisfaction, even at football clubs.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18047
Why does Pagan have a god given right to stay?

I'd ask which of the 2 is more valuable to the organisation. In my humble opinion, neither are perfect but Mitchell offers success as a development coach and many of the players praise his input.
His drills and tactics are far more representative of modern football than anything Denis served up previous to Ratts and Crosisca dragging us into the 21st century.

Pagan is a short term option at best.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:37 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am
Posts: 4827
I'd like to keep Mitchell as he had done a good job with our youngsters...Setanta for example has been nurtured very nicely and I think Mitchell deserves credit for that.
Pagan is the head coach and needs to find an olive branch and offer it.....its his responsibility to make it work and he should be directed to fix the problem.
How easy to send Mitchell to the other side of the ground and not have to talk to him...no professional business would tolerate such nonsense and I dont expect Richard Pratt to tolerate it either....its hindering the progress of the club.....

Now that Pratt is back and money is a minor issue I would to look at having a stand alone VFL team and make sure every listed player is getting a senior game in either the AFL or VFL.....no quota systems with players forced to play in the Bullants twos....

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
I will be honest, I think Pagan should of went a long time ago with his style of Gameplan. But he appears to be changing his gameplan for the upcoming season. So i'm happy to see what happens this year.

With new fresh players like my man Gibbsy and players a year old his gameplan might work. Pagan knows this year he has to get Wins otherwise hes gone. So l doubt he will be playing a defensive gameplan like last year.

With Gibbsy n Murp putting it on Fev's chest each game the team is looking supa.

Obviously if Pagan loses the first 1/3 of the season he will be sacked. But at this stage lets forget last season. Its a fresh start, with hopefully a new gameplan that might work.

No Guarantees another coach will be better or worse at this stage.

Pagan and Mitchell will be fine. They are there to do a job and they will both do it


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:12 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:43 pm
Posts: 322
has mitchell really done that good a job?

there is so much talk is that mitchell is some type of coaching god.
yeah there have been some players who have progressed under his guidence but there are just as many who have failed

mitchell has been an assistnt coach since 1997
bullants senior coach since 2004


here are some carlton listed players that spent a lot of time under mitchell but he was not able to turn them into afl footballers

Daniel BATSON
Jess D. SMITH
Justin DAVIES
BECKER, Nick
PLEMING, Sam
blake campbell
cameron croad

im sure people can name just as many who have done well, but i have not included the likes of prendergast & sporn who spent a lot of time with the bullants.

if mitchell is so good, why is he still an assistant after 10 years in the system?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
BIBI01 wrote:
has mitchell really done that good a job?

there is so much talk is that mitchell is some type of coaching god.
yeah there have been some players who have progressed under his guidence but there are just as many who have failed

mitchell has been an assistnt coach since 1997
bullants senior coach since 2004


here are some carlton listed players that spent a lot of time under mitchell but he was not able to turn them into afl footballers

Daniel BATSON
Jess D. SMITH
Justin DAVIES
BECKER, Nick
PLEMING, Sam
blake campbell
cameron croad

im sure people can name just as many who have done well, but i have not included the likes of prendergast & sporn who spent a lot of time with the bullants.

if mitchell is so good, why is he still an assistant after 10 years in the system?


Good point.
I think carlton supporters just want change due to having a couple shit years and l have too. I would of been behind Mitchell taking over when it come up after the season, but now the seasons started l would be 100% pagan if he changes his gameplan.

*So sick of seeing the little chip kicks around the backline to get it out the opponents 50,
*Playing around the boundary and allowing teams to flood that half of the ground.
*Whitnall playing backline and not forward hurts our offense.
Whitnal and Fev in the wizard cup were the best tag team then. Be awesome to see that again.

If Pagan plays more offensive and down the corridor more, then you will a different Blues team this year.

But really Mitchell could be a dud in the AFL league, until he gets a shot we wont know. He could be worse then pagan or better.
What l find funny about the Mitchel episode last year, when he got interviewed for the job, the board didnt like what they heard so l dont think he will ever be a Carlton coach. If the board liked what they heard he would be in the job now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:09 am
Posts: 909
Location: Melbourne
BIBI01 wrote:
has mitchell really done that good a job?

there is so much talk is that mitchell is some type of coaching god.
yeah there have been some players who have progressed under his guidence but there are just as many who have failed

mitchell has been an assistnt coach since 1997
bullants senior coach since 2004


here are some carlton listed players that spent a lot of time under mitchell but he was not able to turn them into afl footballers

Daniel BATSON
Jess D. SMITH
Justin DAVIES
BECKER, Nick
PLEMING, Sam
blake campbell
cameron croad

im sure people can name just as many who have done well, but i have not included the likes of prendergast & sporn who spent a lot of time with the bullants.

if mitchell is so good, why is he still an assistant after 10 years in the system?


Blake Campbell was crippled by injuries.
Cameron Croad had a crippled brain.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18047
BIBI01 wrote:
there is so much talk is that mitchell is some type of coaching god.




Thanks god. I thought you were going to overstate the situation for a moment. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:01 am 
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Melbourne Supporter

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:19 pm
Posts: 301
JohnM wrote:
Problem is, it's both too late and too early to sack him.

The time was at the end of last season. And the time will be either halfway through this season, or at this season's end.

Yes... Smorgon and his band of merry morons screwed this one up, but thankfully we won't have to put up with their idiocy any longer.


From Caroline Wilson in today's Age re the Roos:

Demetriou said then: "... This is a club that the AFL has completely supported with football money and continued to support.

"There is no sinister plot here but when we put money into a football club, we expect to have a say in its direction.

"It is the same as any investment. We put $1.4 million a year into North along with a lot of money into Carrara and the Gold Coast. It's a pretty serious investment and it's football money, as I say.

"The other 15 clubs would be disappointed if we didn't and they are well within their rights."

My reading is that your board had sacked Denis but the AFL said "you're not spending our money on that". I guess Fraser and friends weren't prepared to tip in Denis' contract payment and the $1.5M back to the AFL at the time.

My club is playing home games in Canberra ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:30 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
Posts: 5913
Location: Melbourne
Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, old55. Which is why so many carlton people were surprised that smorgon went straight to the AFL for a loan when he undoubtedly could have made out a loan to the club from his personal cheque account... as other presidents from other clubs have done in the past.

His decision not to ultimately screwed his presidency, as it most probably tied his hands on important decisions such as pagan, and created a very real impression of a board that wasn't in control at all.

I can't see a guy like Richard Pratt taking orders from a guy like Andrew Demetriou, however.

On a side note, the AFL has a very big problem in my opinion. Its heartland, Victoria, is suffering as we all - melbourne, carlton, collingwood, Essendon*, richmond, st kilda supporters - wonder just what the hell our odds are of actually being able to win a flag in this competition.

I'd suggest that if you follow a victorian team, your odds are probably closer to 1:35 than 1:16.

Makes following a team like the Melbourne Victory a lot more appealing, doesn't it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:33 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:31 pm
Posts: 24457
Location: Heartbroken
JohnM wrote:
On a side note, the AFL has a very big problem in my opinion. Its heartland, Victoria, is suffering as we all - melbourne, carlton, collingwood, Essendon*, richmond, st kilda supporters - wonder just what the hell our odds are of actually being able to win a flag in this competition.

I'd suggest that if you follow a victorian team, your odds are probably closer to 1:35 than 1:16.

Makes following a team like the Melbourne Victory a lot more appealing, doesn't it?


especially now you can't get a passout at Telstra Dome. :roll:

Demetriou and his cronies are slowly wiping the game out.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:01 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:19 pm
Posts: 224
markj wrote:
blueblood95 wrote:
The funny thing is...

If we can win a couple of early games, the club will automatically unite and Caro's comments wil be history.



Rounds 1 - 3 season 2007

Richmond, geelong , Essendon* .. we can win 2 or even all of these .. no worries

its a great draw to start with actually .. a real litmus test .. lets face it , only the 4 points count in the end

no-one ever raves about a great board meeting ! .. or sings the song with gusto after training .. its the flower 4 points up for grabs every week that will make and break a clubs season

the time is now .. time for the players to show the way .. whatever it takes to get the 4 points .. the old boys in the board room cant do it for them

its time for the professional athletes chosen to play for this club, having been given the best possible training and coaching our staff can provide, to show the people like me who buy a membership, who give up their weekends to get to the game in the hope that Carlton are in the winners list this week .. the desire that is needed to take home those 4 points

i expect to be in the 8 after round 3 ... from then on its down to injuries, form and all the other things that face every other club , ever other year

so come on lapps, kouta, fev, murf, tbird, carlos, walks, stevo, simmo and each and every one of the 22 that pull on the cfc jumper at game time .. do it for yourselves, do it for the 4 points

the recovery will happen .. 4 points at a time !!


.. go blues ..



the 4 points are ours :)

and so it begins !


.. go blues ..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:17 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:45 pm
Posts: 818
Location: Still in the shadows.
BIBI01 wrote:
has mitchell really done that good a job?

here are some carlton listed players that spent a lot of time under mitchell but he was not able to turn them into afl footballers

Daniel BATSON
Jess D. SMITH
Justin DAVIES
BECKER, Nick
PLEMING, Sam
blake campbell
cameron croad



Give me a break, the person to blame for Batson, Becker, Pleming and Croad was whoever recruited them. They were not good enough to even play for the Bullants seniors.

Campbell and Davies were crueled by injury and Smith was a good honest trier who we only drafted as a rookie - and not with our initial picks, if I remember correctly, so one would hardly have expected too much.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:11 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18047
The media will be all over this one again tomorrow after Denis' little interview on 3AW today.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:17 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:50 am
Posts: 1237
BV can you give us a precise of what Denis said....

no doubt there was something about rewriting history

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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He didn't really answer when Caro asked him how he felt. Said he had nothing to do with it :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:54 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Melbourne
Was Shaw who got the answer out of Dennis

Shaw asked Dennis if he is the main coach he should be making the decisions on who is in your coaching group his answer was he had been asked that question lots recently and said of course thats what the main coach should have the power to execute

So i am guessin if Pagan had his way no Mitch would be long gone

Sure will be in paper tomorrow

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:17 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18047
Shaw said that the senior coach should have the final say on everything or words to that effect.
Denis replied 'you wont get an argument from me Tony"

Perhaps Tony is a fan of Ty Zantuck. :wink:

Shaw also said that the excuse of youth is running out for players like Walker and Waite.
Pagan agreed and stated that Gibbs, Murphy, Russell etc are still young and can be excused.

I'd suggest Tex can be more than happy with his efforts and Denis should be having an honest look at his own performance before worrying about Walker or Mitchell.

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