What happens if Pagan cracks the sads with Ratten next month, or Bradley or Pratt?
Do we just get rid of the people Denis wont work with?
We are paying this man absolute top dollar to be a professional manager. If he cant be professional in his dealings and acts to the detriment of the club, turf him out on his bum.

We are taking big steps forward and this situation is an anchor holding us back.
Grow up Denis.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

RP needs to have a 1 on 1 'chat' with DP and ask him to retire gracefully with a full payout or be sacked with a full payout.

Give ratts the senior match day job and add someone experienced like Robert Walls to the coaching panel on a short term basis till the end of the year.

Mitch is too important to the club to flick because of his excellent developmental relationship with our young bullants.

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There's so much I could say...

a weird situation between Pagan & Mitchell since Pagan is one goes on about moving forward, getting over things, past events etc.... in press conference when asked Fevola, Scotland etc....

but what about him?


anyway he would like to have 4 wins up by round 10 or he is in real trouble.

In all fairness guys, for all DP’s failings (and he lost me a long time ago) he still is the senior coach and at this stage in charge of our troops. I agree Mitchell is a pretty good coach (have my reservations about him too!) but this situation is ridiculous. They either both start acting professionally and open reasonable, normal channels of communication or Barry, as the sub-ordinate, has to go!

This embarrassing, ridiculous arrangement has to end. Barry made his play, it didn’t come off so for his own sake and integrity and that of our club he needs to go

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C'mon Blueboys!

Exactly, surely you would sack the guy who has overseen two spoons and a second last in 3 of his 4 years. Mitchell is actually doing an ok job at the bullants.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I think you guys are talking about two separate issues

One is whether DP is the right choice as senior coach (obviously the answer is NO!)
The other is whether this stand-off is allowed to occur at a professional football club (again the answer is NO!)

In regards to DP-Mitchell issue, Barry needs to exit. Plain and simple

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C'mon Blueboys!

Mitchel is more valuable to our young playing group than DP IMO. DP should go.

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There's so much I could say...

That is basically whats been happening ever since he arrived people who dont agree get shown the door

Pagan may perform better knowing he has someone breathing down his neck - Some people respond well to pressure. But I think if there is any improvement this year it will brought about through young players maturing not through the coaching expertise of Denis Pagan

For the sake of the club and its future i really hope we a 4 and 3 at least come round 7 . But a little bit of me thinks we might be better off being blot and 7 so we can rid him for good and move forward .

Its a pathetic way to feel about the team you have followed all your life

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

He pissed me off not playing some of the youngens in the finals but that's beside the point I spose...

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

Guys as outsiders, we cannot make a call on who stays and who goes. We simple don't know the circumstances surrounding the issues.

I would get rid of them both for the simple reason they have allowed this to have gone on this far! But as I have said elsewhere, I doubt Pratt won't fix this, so no concern.

Was directly asked about it on Sport 927 this morning and refused to answer.

The problem with sacking pagan now is that we leave ourselves with no option but to appoint someone like Ratts as a caretaker coach for an entire season.

Sack him halfway through the season, and having a caretaker coach for the last 10 rounds doesn't seem so bad.

Then we've got five months to search for the perfect person from 08 onwards.

Hopefully, Ratts will have a significant impact on gameday from round 1 though.

IF the powers that be deem that DP has to go, then he should go now. No point in letting him stay on for any period of time IF he is having a detrimental effect on the club, the players, the membership base and the Navy Blue Spirit.

IF it is deemed that DP is the one to continue coaching us, then it should be on DP's head that it is his responsibility to serve in the best interests of the club and work with the best people in the club (ie. Mitchell).

Either way, Mitchell should stay and this petty bickering be put to bed once and for all. This unprofessional conduct is Richmond of the 1980's, not Carlton of the 2000's (or ever).

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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject - Winston Churchill

https://savemidownload.com. Authorised Game and Software retailer.

Problem is, it's both too late and too early to sack him.

The time was at the end of last season. And the time will be either halfway through this season, or at this season's end.

Yes... Smorgon and his band of merry morons screwed this one up, but thankfully we won't have to put up with their idiocy any longer.

If this story is true, it is an absolute disgrace. If you're professional and you get paid handsomely to do a job, then you surely should put the Club before personal differences and act in the best interests of the Club. It's not hard to interact professionally with people you don't like.

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I send an SOS to the world

While I can see why Pagan is not viewed with great enthusiasm by many, I kind of thnk he deserves a go at reaping some rewards from the crap he has had to put up with.

If Pagan and Mitchell aren't talking, how do we know it is Pagan who won't talk to Mitchell. Maybe Mitchell won't talk to Pagan???

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I'd like to put in my two bobs worth. Butters and Thomas are fueding and one did go, but also let's remember not everyone gets along. Rumour has it that that saga hasn't ended either.

For what it's worth, someone should step in and get DP and BM to act like grown men and clear up any misunderstandings.

I personally think that Mitchell did not try to unseat Pagan. He was told that the job was up for grabs by Smorgan ,so he put together a presentation. The vacancy fell through for some unknown reason which we all still don't know why and BM was left holding the baby - a scapegoat.

For all we know he thinks the world of Pagan but did what was asked of him, and who wouldn't if you knew that your bosses job was up for grabs; and you had some qualification for it, and were asked to apply. He did nothing wrong an did not undermine DP as far as I can see.

RP should get them in a room and mediate at least a workable understanding between them. Instead of playing 'I know nutzing!', MM should also do something constructive.

As DP says, 'Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." No more games. Honesty, decency and maturity has to see through this and these men have to talk for the good of the club.

Something has to be sorted out now.

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1945 - End of round 3 Carlton was last.

Last round Carlton made the final four for the first time.

Eventual premiers.

That's what I'm talking about!

I believ most people are missing the point. As marci said its not a debate about who's better or more vital. Mitchell made a play for the senior job and failed for whatever reason. That being the case, he can't stay on the team. This isnt the ALP.
Don't give me crap about mitchell being asked for a presentation and thats all he did. 4 months before the event we were reading on these very pages that Pagan had to go and Mitchell had to replace him. Brown et al put a proposal for Mitchell to repl;ace Pagan. You cant tell me he wasnt aware of this and didnt agree to proceed with it. Once t failed he should have taken it like a man and resigned. Maybe Fraser brown can give him a job.
As it stands its a nonensical situation that disrespects the football club.

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T E A M

Hi all,

I believe that the path that Mitchell took to arrive at this point doesn't really matter and won't change anything. The point is, Mitchell was the only one who decided to take this path, sure, he was shown the path, but he still chose to take it, hence have to face up to the consequences.

Fact is, we are at this juncture where the senior and development / bullants coach don't get along so we have to all deal with it. We as supporters, should NOT accept a 'mediocre' outcome where they can work on a professional level, but don't get along. No matter what, there is going to be a personal aspect to any professional relationship and if they don't get along, then the club, administrators, supporters and members are not getting the 110% that we all deserve. It is therefore on this basis, that I think Mitchell should go (purely b/c Denis has been formally endorsed).

Right or wrong, it no longer matters. What matters is that we place the interest of the club, players and members first to ensure that we get 110% out of our coaching panel. It is time that we raise our bar and expect nothing short of the best for the club. With Mitchell there, we will never get the110% of full dedication required b/w the coaching panel and players.

I agree this scenario is untenable, but Mitchell is still there so I'm just trying to make a suggestion that might make both parties at least satisfied and make the most of a unreasonable situation.

I know of rumours (and this is all what where dealing with here) that DP hasn't got the entire support of the playing group, so for the good of the club maybe he should go, (regardless of contract as he almost did) if we think along your lines B.

Having said all that if your scenario brings peace and harmony at CFC then so be it. It makes no difference to me. Bring it on. Get rid of Mitchell!

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1945 - End of round 3 Carlton was last.

Last round Carlton made the final four for the first time.

Eventual premiers.

That's what I'm talking about!