I was more on about The Games so called fact that the AFL had nothing on us until Collo was in power - that sort of thinking is just plain delusional and the making up of fictitional stories.

The AFL had us marked as a dead species whilst Elliott was still in power, they already had O'Reilly's stat dec signed and delivered along time before Elliott was kicked out.

Collins subsequent naming of Braddles and SOS to the AFL commission was an attempt to show the AFL that the new administration was setting a new path of administrative correctness and leaving the past behind us. It could have cost us a bit more for the penalties and fines but i reckon the AFL had those penalties worked out not long after Stephen Orrally's stat dec popped on Demetrispew desk.

That's one thing i hate about these forums is people just making up complete and utter bullshit stories to try and get there point accross - so yes The Game is delusional.

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

When the Legends Stand was concieved and built - Dockland Stadium was not even a concept.

The proposal to extend Princes Park was originally for 45,000 seat stadium - with the Legends stand built on a more acute viewing angle and also much higher at the Lygon Street end.

If it had of been developed as conceived the business case for Docklands would never have got off the ground - as the AFL would have already have contracted to fixture all the second tier games at Princes Park.

No footy would have been available to Docklands.

Unfortunately Graeme Samuel (in his capacity as Chairman of Dockland Authority and member of the AFL Commission - conflict of interest or what ) got to his mates at the City Council to limit the capacity of the Princes Park development to 35,000.

In its original conception - the development of Princes Park at 45,000 would have been a financial boon to Carlton.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Tha AFL already had O'Reilly, due to his ex-partner. If you want to argue over and over again, at least stick to the facts.

Carlton were not penalised for Fraser Brown's payments outside the cap, if Collo didn't talk the other two into admitting guilt then they were hardly going to punish us that bad for one player.
But you go on blaming Jack but be thankful he's back to save the club you nearly destroyed with your short sighted decision to vote in Carlton One.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Oh yeah, what a hero Jack was ...

I don't like this thread anymore.

But there's an old saying, and it goes like this:

"Loose Lips, sink big ships"

Lets move forward.

Welcome back Jack...now keep your mouth clean if not shut.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

we didnt give the 8.5 million legends stand enough time to pay itself off.
the plan was to include playing four games at princes park each year.

carlton had 2.5 million left to go to pay it off since the inception of the legends stand.

bottom line princes park could have held a capacity of 30,000 comfortably for events outside afl football.. clubs like kangaroos and bulldogs could have used the ground to limit their outgoings..

now you may begin to understand the fiasco with collins and his fonedome.

Just about everyone blame John Elliott for everything, but the way I see it this way it was.

1. The AFL had in mind to get rid off Waverley Park a long time ago because all clubs seen the big $ sign, so the AFL urged Carlton to get the Legend Stand build and after Carlton was committed to build it, Jeff Kennett chasing the Greek Vote decided that he wanted a stadium built at the Docklands and threatened the AFL if they don’t get to the party he was still going to build it and let Soccer & Rugby using the Stadium so the AFL had no choice but to agree, that’s when they told Carlton not to keep going with the Legend Stand project but unfortunately it was too late for Elliott to cancel the plans as he already committed eight million dollars towards the project.
2. because of all the dept Carlton got into because of the AFL, Jack biggest mistake was when he have threatened the AFL that he was going to take the TV rights from them, in the meantime because Telstra Dome for awhile there, nobody wanted to play there I’m sure both the AFL and Collins wanted Carlton to play most games at the Dome and Demeterou being an ex North Melbourne player when Carlton was most hated by North because of the North Melbourne Shares we had and we did not want to give them back to them he had reasons to get back at Carlton for them, people say we were caught of cheating but I would say we were targeted as we did not do anything different that most if not all the other clubs been doing and the rest is history.
3. we were to get an underground car park but because Kennett was going to join the Eastern Freeway with the Tullamarine freeway and a toll was going to be involved and it was so close to Election time, Kennett told Carlton to wait till after the Election before he go on with the plan and we know what happened after the Election.
4. So you see everything that Elliott touched turned sour and you know what when the cheating started Collins was still at Carlton then.
5. Ok you may take this tread with a grain of salt but I still regards Elliott as one of our greatest President Carlton ever had (I’m a great one for punishment)

forgive Jack all you want, rewrite it as much as you want. He presided over our first spoon. Or was that the AFL's fault too?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I have decided to write my autobiography along the lines of the historical revisionism displayed in elements of this thread.

The title of my biography will be 'Molsey: Super Cool Suave Guy who Picked up Chicks with a Single Glance...with added Security Clearance at the CIA and KGB and Playboy'. I think it will sell well amongst Carlton fans.

Notwithstanding any grand plans as to how many people could have used that stand, the simple facts are that:

* Opposition fans didn't use that stand
* Carlton fans didn't use the stand
* Sponsors, TV networks - summarise as anyone with money - didn't use the stand
* We committed to a huge, company-make/break project without any long-term tenure over future cashflows or an ability to control that long-term tenure.

Put simply, it was a shocking business decision that put us at the whim of the AFL. History shows that AFL didnt do us any favours, but since when did we expect that?

The bottom line is that the new leadership and administration is all about inclusion and bringing all Carlton fans together. This is great news and takes us past the division and blame of the past. Applaud that and stop trying to make heroes out of flawed men who just happen to love the Blues as much as you or I do.

Finally this site is getting some logical new posters!

xxxx

The trouble with the Legend Stand was that it faced the sun and because of the big amount that it cost us Carlton started charging far too much to sit there and how would you feel as an opposition supporter coming to the worst of the three grounds and it’s a lockout unless you had to pay a hefty fee to sit in the Legend Stand facing the bloody sun all afternoon and the parking was terrible as well.

I believe this was the main reason why Optus Oval got to be a bit on the nose with opposition supporters and I suppose I did not blame them.
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