Has it actually been established that Andrew Walker has outstanding leadership abilities? While I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't, one shouldn't make this group without them. Nor should the younger players be over-represented amongst the group.

Let's remember that character of the likes of Murphy and Gibbs is a very rare commodity, and they are the exception rather than the rule. Walker has plenty of time to make this group on merit, but he's very far from the finished article as a footballer. I'm happy to let him focus on being the best footballer he can be before satisfying any leadership aspirations.

Really disappointed for Tex walker after seeing photo`s of him at trainning, you can see the hard work he has put in. I would have thought maybe a bit of reward for it. I find it weird he never gets mentioned for a leadership role. Oh well i reckon he looks like he`s ready to rip the comp apart. GO TEX

Real slap in the face as far as I am concerned for Andrew Walker.

He would be in my top 5 for sure. Above Scotland and Gibbs (at this stage) and Fisher and wiggins .

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T E A M

Wow Wiggins in there,you think Houilhan a player near 150 games,would be in there,has no leadership quality i guess and Andrew Walker,i don't agree on Kade Simpson being there yet until this year over and Gibbs.

I thought it is a bit strange for some one with 0 games,Murphy showed enough in his 13 games,but realistic should be 1 more year experience at least. The guys like Waite and Fisher have been there for a while and haven't done much wrong at the club,just have had injuries.

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Bang Bang.

Does a large leadership group = a lack of faith in the incumbent?

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Long time reader. Long time poster.

Mate, how did you come to the conculsion that I'm always post such negative stuff? You yourself just said you've only just come on here and from one post you think I post negatively.

Just because everyone else seems to be happy with this bullshit decision, doesn't mean I have to.

Terrible decision.

They should have given it to Stevens for four years and by then he'd be entering his twlight years and Murphy will be 22. Pass the baton on then.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

And you know what else?

This decision makes us look incredibly stupid.

For the past few years, we've looked to off load Lance at every trade period and haven't had any luck.

He has one good first half season, dies in the arse in the second half, wins the B+F and so the club decide to appoint him captain on the back of one good season.

If history has taught us anything it's that some of footballs big decisions have resulted in some of the biggest mistakes off the back of one good football season.

This is just another chapter in that large book.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

For those concerned that Tex is not in the leadership group, have you considered that maybe he was asked, but declined.

As for Gibbs, we must remember that he didn't come out of the U18 comp. He's already played 2 years of senior footy in the SANFL.

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“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
- Martin Luther King Jr.

You make some good points there PJ, we think alike on this matter for sure.
Definitely agree, makes us look somewhat foolish again

11 players in the leadership group is symptomatic of one of our recent problems, the lack of ability to make difficult decisions.

Can someone please explain the logic behind 11 players in the leadership group?

Been thinking about the Gibbs appointment a bit more.

We all WANT him to be the messiah.

I reckon he MIGHT become the messiah.

But at this stage, we should not be TREATING him like the messiah. It's over the top.

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

The quicker Pagan, with some of his goons from the MC, leave the better off Carlton will be...

We need to move forward....

Pratt and the board will fix the off field duties, but our football department and philosophy still hasn’t moved forward...

Lance shouldn’t be captain, he doesn’t motivate and doesn’t lead...

Also a leadership group of 11 geez, we are not that blessed with proven leaders...


......(waiting for the abuse).......

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Are you quite sure about that?

Lance may rise to the occassion - I hope so. Not my choice but who knows, some people do surprise when greatness is thrust upon them.

As for the 11 I see it as a 3 teir. Some vets to assist Lance

Some mid tiers to grow into the vet roles
some kids who will be the future leaders of this club

For years some of us have been bemoaning the lack of leaders because this club did not think ahead. I actually think the group today shows we are thinking ahead.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

PJ. Been pushing the Stevens for captain platform for at least two years now. I understand your grief, but at the end of the day it means very little at all.

By bringing out a screen? Andy McKay perhaps???

Congrats to all in the leadership group.

May they bleed blue over the next decade towards the 17th Flag.

That's All that counts. Remember that.

Politics Forum is now doormant. We've moved forward.Lets not let this become one.

We have taken big steps since we recruited Walker, through to Pratt and now to the 2007 leadership group. What is is, and its set in concrete.

Me, I prefer smaller leadership groups. Say 5 of the 44 players. I'd have it based on willingness, ability, seniority and loyalty.

Simply, if Lance had to be captain (and I'm sure the board/MC would have weighed up the arguments deeper and rigorously to come to that conclusion; moreso than me). I'd have it simple:

Lance
Stevens
Kouta
Fevola
Lappin
Houlihan


This way it becomes an honour to be in a select group. It should be used as an aspiration for the rest of the group. I'd consider Numbers of games (experience) for the club (loyalty) should. It could only have a positive effect on the mindset of the rest of the players ( community included). No second guessing...too many cooks spoil the broth.

Also keep us hoping and spruiking the quality of those that are not on the list; the future. That's a much more healthy thing than arguing, belittling and feeding on our own.

Exceptions to the rule can apply. Say Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo, Waite, Thornton could lead a youth group (especially given how many kids are on the list; 30?), but are not yet stars with a proven track record to be the Top 5 leaders.

It's all personal choice I guess.

We've got a good squad. They have experienced alot more things about a football club than most others (AFL players).

This Carlton Pot is mixed with a lot of ingredients, and its brewing and even the players don't know what's going on, but they know something special is going to happen at this club, sooner rather than later.

Carlton: full of flags and many more surprises.

We've got a good thing going.

Go Blues!

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I agree.

Pagan said something along the lines of Gibbs was a leader at Glenelg so he already has leadership qualities.
I have board room experience at Rays cake shop so am I now qualified to become a member of the BHP Billiton board?
It sort of reminds me of mummy and daddy millionair who buy Johnny a 150K merc for his 16th birthday.
What a farce...fancy having AA champions like Kouta and Skinny taking advice from a kid who hasnt even played a game yet.How about we let Gibbs (and Murhpy) earn some respect, not hand it to them.

And an 11 man leadership team?
To lead a list of about 40? Thats one leader for every 4
Are they kidding or what? Im sure a few teachers in state schools would love to be teaching in Pagans class.

Can someone please explain the rationale of keeping Kouta yet having him relinquish his captaincy. If we are not going to benefit from his leadership and marketing capabilities then what is the point of retaining him and having the inferior Lance assume that leadership role. Did he ask for too much money? One more year of Kouta before handing over the reigns to Murphy would have been the most palatable outcome imo.

From my few observations at training, I have never seen Lance stay back and work on his game or fitness or even help out one of the youngsters with a bit of mentoring. Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong, but he comes across a gifted player who is just plain lazy. Obviously he must be demonstrating some level of leadership given that he is a favourite amongst the players.

You make some valid points Conundrum.

I have never been a fan of Lance's training track attitude/persona and as such it gives the wrong message to the playing group about our club leaders.

However I am prepared to give Lance some benefit of the doubt - and see whether he can change this after being appointed - however he is on a hiding to nothing - because if he does lift his game on the track after his appointment the critics will just say he should have been doing it all along.


Having said all that I wish Lance congratulations on his appointment, he joins an elite band of men as Captains of Carlton.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill