Water Wheel continued to trade whilst insolvent, and that's illegal. It's illegal to protect suppliers from giving credit when there's no prospect of payment. That's theft.

And that's why Elliott was declared bankrupt.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

An additional concern I have with the trumpeted return of John Elliott is what impact it will have on the Carlton FC brand. The catalyst for our club's fall from grace was Elliott and his board, and I think there is a downside for linking him back to our club.

In the competitive world of corporate sponsorship, I think any perception that John Elliott is wielding influence around the Carlton Football Club is going top make some corporate people nervous.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

Absolutely!

He represents mismanagement to the corporate sector.

I am suprised that Pratt wants to have the club associated with him. I am sure that Elliott would have cut a deal with Pratt on the proviso of returning.

Pratt is a smart cookie...he wouldnt let Jack in if he didnt think he could contribute.

We will wait and see.

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Revenge is a dish best served cold

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I AM PROUD SPONSOR OF THE CAROLINE WILSON HATE CLUB

Why can't people just admit they are wrong?
Carlton One were supposed to save the club and bring us back from the dark old days of cheating, arrogance, finals, flags etc.
You threw a guy out who loved Carlton and replaced with a man who used us for what he wanted and left us to rot.
Ironic the man who you all blame is now having to help dig us out of the mess you all created when you over reacted to the 2002 spoon.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

HP your comments were not related to his suitability as president of the club, that’s not a non issue.

The discussion related to thoughts on his return to the club and his character.
Your opinion as to whether his returning is a good thing or bad thing is your opinion; I haven't made any comment on your opinions.

I made comment on one specific statement that you presented which insinuated as justifiable and accepted fact ie that he has no respect for women in general or in statistical terms over 50% of the Australian population as you put it.

Your right perspective is an interesting thing and when you put things into perspective don't you agree that you were being melodramatic ? and on another instance don't you agree that choosing certain words such a "groping" that your really taking literal license in order to justify what is really just your own personal opinion, not necessarily fact as you have implied?

Because we are not wrong.

Steady on.

Collo, smorgy's and Jack have a contributed to the Carlton slippery slide.

I have never stated anything about Collo or Smorgy.

I havent got time for them either.

Jack is probably the pick of the lot.

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Revenge is a dish best served cold

&

I AM PROUD SPONSOR OF THE CAROLINE WILSON HATE CLUB

True. If it was about teaching us a lesson for cheating then why we were the only one to receive penalties to that extent? unless anyone would like to suggest we were the only ones over the salary cap at the time.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Oooh, now I can't help myself.

Overeracted to the 2002 spoon? Let's get some facts straight...

When Elliott took over as President, Carlton had just won 3 flags in 4 years. It had the highest membership in the competition. It had more money than any other club in the competition. It was the envy of the competition.

When Elliott was removed 19 years later, Carlton had just won the wooden spoon (and in the 19 years he was there, with a pretty good list most of the time, only two flags). It's membership had fallen dramatically, to rank behind Collingwood, Essendon*, Hawthorn and Geelong (and caught by St Kilda and Richmond, from memory) - not to mention most of the interstate clubs.

It had racked up a massive debt, to be the poorest club in the competition...yes, worse off than North and the Dogs. And it was about to be fined nearly $1m and stripped of multiple draft picks for repeated salary cap rorting ie cheating by the Board and Management, for which Elliott was responsible.

Now, I may not be the best businessman in this country, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that the Club had gone into massive decline over the time of Elliott's reign. Just as the rest of his life had fallen apart, so too was the Club under his control. If that was a business, answerable to shareholders, he, as leader of the business, would have been out on his arse years earlier. In fact, the writing was on the wall in the late 90s, just no one chose to read it.

So, whether or not Elliott should come back to the Club or not is now a matter of personal opinion. But NEVER, EVER let it be said that John Elliott was not ultimately responsible, as President of Carlton, for the disastrous state that the Club found itself in at the time of his removal.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

If you didn't vote in Carlton One then your conscience like mine should be clear. I just wish the guilty people who did would at least stop this pointless sniping of JE considering their short sighted decision back in 02' nearly ended us.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Anyone with half a brain should realise that Jack is a bully ,sexist and pigheaded. He is a major reason as to why the club got in such a financial mess in the first place.

Fair enough inviting him back. He loves the club and you shouldnt hold onto shit forever. But his role should be minor and not involved with the financial running of the club. Because IMO he is simply a bad businessman.

Well, as far as I am aware, uninvited handling of women in a sexual nature is often described as groping, particularly when the prepetrator also happens to be drunk.

He has a significant history of this kind of behaviour, which it appears you actually accept above, and certainly in my circle of friends this kind of behaviour is considered disrespectful. I am intrigued as how you can claim a willingness to inflict this behaviour on women in general is not indicative of a general disrespect for women.

Or do you not consider this kind of behaviour disrespectful?

Is that clear enough for you? Or does your perspective allow it to be described as a little innocent fun because he is a repeat offender who was alowed to get away with it for far too long?

I do not expect many of those who have observed his behaviour would describe my words above as melodramatic.

At least on this occasion you have suggested the term "as far as I am aware"

So the unless you are CERTAIN that he handled that person in an INTENDED sexual nature your comment and subsequent statement becomes baseless.


And cut the crap HP I see alot of loose lip and light weighted accusations everyday from people that are just intent on seeking vengeance on others.

You seem to have a habit in the last few posts of attacking a persons character just like your implication that I condone that sort of action.
Stick with the facts HP and the facts say you are taking literal license and being melodramatic in order to push through a personal view that you have of another individual.

Couldnt agree more.

He is back, too late to cry over spilt milk, but he must not be gien an opportunity to represent the club on an official, board or executive level again.

He is not the messiah, he is just a very naughty boy!

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Revenge is a dish best served cold

&

I AM PROUD SPONSOR OF THE CAROLINE WILSON HATE CLUB

Apparently some people still believe the earth is flat too.

and Pagan is doing a good job.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Pagan is the only passenger left at the club.

The sooner he leaves the better. (push or shove)

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Revenge is a dish best served cold

&

I AM PROUD SPONSOR OF THE CAROLINE WILSON HATE CLUB

jack bad business man umm "pigs arse"

the guy singlehandedly stopped robert holmes a court from taking over BHP in 1985...the guy was 35y.o then..and bhp is worth billions and billions

the guy who merged ixl & elders smith and today is known as fosters

to put it simply, jack single handedly created two of the biggest 20 companies in australia.

yeah shame on jack for even thinking of busting up the monopoly in the rice market wide open//

He is still partially responsible for the beginning of the downward spiral at the Carlton football club.

There are no ifs or buts about it.

I believe that Jack is lucky to be given a second chance.

I hope that he doesnt blow that chance and quietly helps Carlton back to wear it belongs.

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Revenge is a dish best served cold

&

I AM PROUD SPONSOR OF THE CAROLINE WILSON HATE CLUB

responsible in the afl's eyes because he never bent over to a b-grade director by the name of evans who was a serial cheat himself.. you know that the bombers were over the salary cap in 1993 don't you?

because he wanted to get rid of the draft in favour of zoning and was giving the afl hell and leather?

whats so wrong with clubs developing their own players in their zone?

because basic economics said that a move to telstra dome is a loser when playing interstate clubs at princes park and the break even point at the mcg for bigger games was more attractive?

yes jack is guilty of giving ron evans absolute hell.