Very disappointed with the performance of some of the players however I think that the Coach and MC must also take some blame.

I think most posters here know and acknowledge that Prender is not a key position defender and doesn't play the set up role very well. We used Lappin and Houla as the loose man in defence during the pre-season and they were able to set up a lot of play with their skills and reading of the play. However without Fevola and with Archie not taking a lot of marks we needed a creative player like Lappin or Houla up forward to kick some goals. Our loose man in defence was nowhere near as good or productive as their player. Lance certainly plays that role well but we need him to provide an option at CHF. Jarrod is coming along but is certainly more damaging if he gets the thrid best defender.

What surprised me was that if we needed a key position defender to counter their height or a possible rotational forward to allow Lance to go down back then IMO Digby should have got the nod at selection. Now we discussed this at length last week so it's no surprise to say that Prender was not a success down back and we were under the pump straight away. Perhaps we should have started Prender on ball as that seems his best position but that would then have left us short down back. If Digby wasn't playing well enough to deserve promotion then maybe Karl should have been selected? Just a lack of options which is probably indicative of where I think our list is at present.

Maybe we should have played Archie on ball more and asked Barnaby to play on Stafford in defence and released Teague to Simmonds. If Archie is not up to playing on ball and he isn't contributing up forward then maybe he should play down back. Just change it around. I can understand that the Mc might think that we still have time to turn it around after they kick the first one or two and once we settle we will score but it didn't happen . Maybe Lappin should have been sent to defence at that stage to mop up and cover the holes. What's the worse that can happen when we are getting thrashed out of the middle?.

The coach advised the onballers and team that the Tigers like to drop a player back behind the play at stoppages and then dish the ball out to them to help set it up. This starts their running game but for whatever reason our onballers got sucked into the contest and didn't man up or get defensive at those times. They got a run on and we needed every player to take a man and make sure he didn't get free. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to realise that. It's basic football. Lack of leadership perhaps but certainly a lack of awareness. Just make them earn every mark kick and handball. It shouldn't take a break in play and the coach to tell a player to man up. Not much a coach can do if you highlight the tactic and tell the team what to do and how to do it and some players just don't or can't do it. Will make for an interesting selection table this week.

The Tigers have a good running game and there tactics were always going to be to try and expose Brett Johnson for pace. I'm not sure if we can play Bannister and Prender in the same side at present because IMO we need more creative players and both seem to play a similar role and we seem to go to negative. McGrath may be a better option on ball when we are playing the faster running teams if they are not going to bring in the kids.

Could not agree more BlueMark!

We don't kick to targets we kick to zones.
How many times does the opposition run the ball out of our forward line to the fat side of the ground where their is plenty of space and take it all the way for a scoring shot.
How many times do our players get smothered trying to get a quick kick away instead of releasing another player with a handball.
We do not share the ball so several players unless your in the select few will never be high possession earners.

Lets open our game plan up and share it around a bit more.
I have no problem with the kick it long principle but surely first otion football is the best gameplan you can play.

When are we going to wake up that you cant send midgets out to play against very tall players...Teague on Stafford is poor selection,or poor coaching . We do it every year.....sick of repeating myself..if its not Stafford it Lade if its not Lade it Petrie etc etc etc....these players are ruckman they need ruckman or very tall defenders picking them up....you cant cheat with flankers.....forget gameplans....get the matchups right. first....
Richardson, Simmonds, Stafford require three big talls ditto for Thurstans Tredrae, Lade and so on and so on......we are still no better off than the Merrington/Hotton days.....trying to cheat with undersized players...give me the right size players and then talk game plans....

Fair go to Pago, in the second qtr Eight players never got a single kick, 13 of our stars got less than two kicks!!!!!
Eleven players got less than three kicks for the first half!!!
You could play any game plan and lose with that discraceful effort
I think with the road trip factor (Adelaide and Freo and then back up last Friday) the lads were spent and it caught them up.
Tigers were coming off a high and played full of confidence, and for us some tired lads took the field who had frankly played crap despite beating the Hawks in a quarter.
The planets were in alignment for a belting, sadly its Friday night again this week.
The boys went hard in Feb, March securing Wizard cup glory when other sides were not , and it's going to bite us hard with a young list post the mid-season break.
Apart from Archie in defence which failed in round one, I think Pago and game plans are not to be judged on one performance.
Seriously wasn't much you could do on Saturday for the first half, apart from throw 20 in defence. Second half was okish. If anyones to blame it's Scott Burns and Chad Morrison.

Look were playing talls by default as it is.. if we had a choice Deluca and Whitnall would be taking a spell too.
You cant reward bullshit by playing Morell and Norman for the hell of it.
Bryan wont get a game this week either.. unless its a shock promotion.
We have no choice.
Playing Norman and Morell means that you can be out and out crap and still get a game.

Hands are tied.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Fair comment Synbad.

I think Archie has been struggling for form for quite a while and unless he can be used on ball I really think he must get dropped. Lance although struggling up forward has at least provided something when he has gone down back and as you said we are desperately short of talls.

However I think sometimes you have to take a gamble and it wouldn't be the first time that a player was chosen for team balance or because of his record against a certain team or player. Also in the last couple of weeks Morrell has been named amongst the best in the Bullants by the papers so I don't think we would be rewarding crap. IIRC the list of best players is supplied by the club so Mitchell must be thinking Digby's doing something right.

I understand that hands may be tied but it doesn't mean we can't try and shake things up. I just hate performances like last weekend.

They played shit again in the VFL according to the people that know..Norman spends the lead up to the game in the rooms texting happily away....

Not switched on.. dont deserve a game... means Deluca plays each week.. and Teague has to take a tall..

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Probably finding out how many drink cards he can secure down at Spy Lounge.

_________________
Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Both Diggers and Karl have not done enough in the 2's to justify selection this week. Give the likes of Russell and Bentick a go. If we need extra height than Bryan should get a run, we sure could use his disposal.

_________________
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

The downhill skier had 9 though!

on stats if you had seen just the stats and not the game.. and looked at stevos, koutas, campos , scotlands and lances stats .. youd have thought we wiped the floor with richmond...
unfortunately the problem with stats in modern day footy is they mean ZILCH!!!... cos we were given a bath...

Go back and look at the tape and see how many of the downhill skiiers stats were meaningful...

Jarusa can you help out our friend here????

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Why are you guys talking about Paul Medhurst?

I generally try not to

In a similar way, I try not to discuss how women remind me of my mother, and the finer points of Freud on first dates

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

Would you rather him not get the ball? He can't win in some peoples eyes if he gets it, will certainly get bagged if he doesn't. Just come out and say it Synbad. You do not want Campo or Whits in the team period. And haven't for years.

_________________
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

No i want him to get the ball but i dont have an orgasm about his touched like you do BM.
Hes paid to get the ball.. he is paid to shepherd, block, tackle ,dont backchat..listen to instructions. .. kick goals, assist. defend, and lead too....
he is meant to be a multi dimmensional modern day, very well paid, footballer..who just happens to be the VC of the greatest football club in the world.

ive already said id like the pair of them gone from the side...and the salary cap cleared for players who can do the bizz.. whats wrong with you mark.. ??? why do you ask me to come out and state something ive already stated????

ok someone is going to call me a broken record..cos i answered another question ive been asked over and over...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Last week he had 9 possessions for the entire game and most people here thought he played s##$.

This week he gets 32 and they still think he played s#$$.

heheh
thats Karl

its not you thats distracting him by phone text is it Josh?

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Probably Laurie or his missus.
Perhaps even Croadie.
I mean he is about to leave his second club in six months.

_________________
Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

fascinating debate.

I reckon Pagan is one dimensional. He seems to want to have faith in the players to beat their opponents, and to come back from being down or beaten. So he leaves them on, leaves them where he had them, and only makes changes when obvious (goals against) or needs (Lance to the backline).

What it says, though, is that the boys just aren't up to it. Synbad's correct, we have to get rid of a number and attract alternatives. To do that we may just need to get rid of some "icons" - the great brain whitnal, and that clubman campo. Dannyboy may be right too, that Pagan is simply preparing us for the inevitable - leaving them on to show us how badly off we are, and so we don't scream when the sacred cows are sacrificed.

Pagan has a simple plan. It's a hard tough breed of collision footy. Beat your opponent, don't over possess, and use it properly. At the moment, we can't do any of it. Confidence is infectious and lack of confidence endemic. Pagan will persevere, but I feel that he has been as surprised as anyone at the shambles of this year - suspensions and lack of ticker.

Frankly, I think he feels let down. And if so, then we can only lay the blame squarely at the feet of the senior players. the Kids (whom we want) can't be expected to carry the team. It's the leaders that are failing us, and failing us badly.

Pagan won't be bold, it's not his style. He will continue to pursue his game plan until he gets the right cattle. Unfortunately, that is further away than we all thought Pagan included.

In the end, I can't think of a better coach for us now. He was magnificent last year, and he will be again. It's time for the players, particularly the senior players, to stand up and be counted, because they are being watched, and ought to know better.

_________________
"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost