If we are quoting Sun Tzu, we may as well be quoting Guru Bob as well:

When two men go up for the mark, only one can find true happiness.

There are two types of footballers in the world - those who know what the two kinds are and those that don't.

You can't pull up your socks if you do not know what socks are.

... and on leadership

As Moses said when he parted the waters of the red sea: "That'll give the side a lot of confidence."

... on this week

As the commander of the British Garrison lamented after his outpost was crushed by thirty thousand rampant zulus: "They were running in twos and threes and there were loose men everywhere."

Remember the words of General Custer, as he witnessed the total annihilation of his troops at Little Big Horn: "I think you'll see a completely different side next week."

... on our long term prospects

As Mawson said to Scott, camped near the South Pole, when their prospects looked doomed: "We're just a couple of players short of being competitive."

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Oh you got me there.... !!! its not Buddhism its Taoism..
Its not korean rice its japanese rice....or chinese rice....

I dont care what it is Mark its just flower rice for Christs sake .!!!

Its got nothing to do with football !!!

Maybe we should go poach Cosgriff from the AIF would that make you feel more at ease Mark??

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

...except for Dean of course.

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill

Of course BB.. special fried rice was one of my favourite all time players and would have coped with Denis cos he always played at 100%.
at the end of the day thats all you can ask from anyone who goes out there..
hed probably lay a hard bump and his tackles woul stick and there was no way he wouldnt trek back. he kicked the ball long and he always gave a contest.

Gotta love a good honest footballer like Ricey

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And Macedonians are Greek

Cosgriff from the AIF? Oh you mean Gosgrove from the ADF, now he would be a good get, a very good motivator of men.

PS Cosgrove read Sun Tzu as well. Historical footnote General Cosgrove was my very first Company commander way back in the day.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

why dont you whisper in his ear and see if we can at least get him to do a gig in the box??
Surely with that kind of nouse we can turn our season around.

Its all in your hands BM..this mission is important.. dont come back with out accomplished!*puts black stuff on your face*

Dont fail us!!!

If we cant get Sun Tzu in the box lets get the next best thing.....

as for the Macedonians being Greek thats reserved to another forum...

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I don't mind being seen as stupid, so can someone please explain what they reckon Denis' game plan is?

Cheers

Denis isn't the best match day coach - but he is meticulously prepared. He demands it of himself.

The players are not executing what he wants. Training reports from last year suggested that chipping short to make the switch was ok, running the ball through the lines was good if you couldn't find a target.

What Denis needs to do is have some balls. Make a statement about his leadership group and drop a senior player. I don't care if it's Koutoufides, Whitnall, Camporeale, Stevens, Houlihan, Scotland - any of the players who didn't put in last week should all be open to the chopping block.

Don't reward mediocrity Denis. Notice we played alright without Camporeale and Scotland against Port and Freo. These teams like to chip the ball around. Against a team more direct who played man on man, we would have been better as well.

The problem is that when the 3 highest paid players, two of whom are captain and vice-captain at the club don't follow rules, don't set an example, don't man up, what kind of example does this set the younger players.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Camporeale or Whitnall bandied around the trade table and sent to some other club. They're a cancer that needs to be eradicated. We need players who will stand up and follow the hierarchical structure that AFL clubs are.

Mark, you'd realise surely that like the army has a chain of command, clubs do as well. Denis plans the strategy, but the work that has to be done has to be done by the soldier under his command. The officers are crap at the moment, they're not leading by example, they're not setting a physical example, they're not taking the young men under their command under their wing. You know what happens. Hitler Youth Divisions in WW2 as an example.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

back to the original post. I think pagan was outcoached but I do not know his motives.

Huh?

Well did he allow himself mto be outcoached? Denis all along has said the penalties hurt a lot more than people think - is he showing us the hurt.

Does he leave Scotland on to show us what we lack?

Does he out De Luca back to show us what we lack? (thought Archie tried reallyu hard and was no way our worst)

Does he play play a midfield that couldn't defensively cover my son's under 12 side?

Is Denis pushing a point down our throats? Did he show us what we could be in the whizzfizz with the right personal? With runners both ways, with leading hard working forwards, with accurate kicks, with corridors and sides than man up and close a game down when their opponents get a run on?

God I hope so because the alternative is that denis is about as lost as I am. Why let that man stay loose in defence? Why have blokes who refuse to man up? Why play Setanta for fractions of moments? Why not bring in Russell for speed and try him out? Or Bryan or Bentick?

What is denis on about?

is he closer to Synbad than we think?

Or are we in deep deep shit?

I have no idea. But I hope its not the latter.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

i followed all of that CC but what does a chain of command mean???

Were going to have a plan b... which let me guess might mean that our exquisitely talented list will play a possesion style game..were going to pin point passes everybody!!!

No i know??? Denis will go to a flooding game so we dont get hammered so the bludges dont stand out...

WE CANT EVEN FOLLOW a SIMPLE GAME PLAN , HOW THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO INFTRODUCE players to another game plan??
Execute game plan one first and get it under control then you might want to introduce something different wiythout confusing them further...

Its amazing how some people watch the footy....

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Distinct lack of Plan B, in my opinion. When Plan A comes off, we toil all day and just scrape in for wins. It's high-intensity football that is difficult to maintain for long periods, and is not particularly suited to the cattle Pagan has at his disposal. Yes, it'll work every now and then, particularly against teams with lack of pace and run, but it's a gameplan stretched tight like a drum, and if just one element of it fails, we have no contingency, no Plan B.

Yes, it'll take time to find the right players, and to adapt those players to it, and we know Pagan's match preparation is meticulous, but the style of play he demands is at least partly at fault for these type of losses.

Pagan loves sticking to a plan. He is very pig headed thinking if he's going to go down it won't be on their terms. Well.......................

Why the hell wasn't Lance moved to the back half 15 minutes into the first?? He's had the job on Tredrea, Pavlich etc and at least put body preassure on them. He showed in the second half that he could mark or bring the ball to ground and at least give us the chance to rebound. ADL is definately no backman and is really hanging on to a career by the skin of his teeth.

Eddie Betts should have been told NOT to fly for marks in the square. He did this twice that I saw and should've been ticked off after the first time. Betts should be played this week but told he is a crummer - not a CHF.

You're only as good as your bottom 6. Problem is we have 8 that don't really cut the mustard ATM. We need to rotate until we only have 4-5 "passengers" I think could cover that.

Synbad, Yep I have always wondered what and how you watch.

Never ever heard you say or write anything except contracts, baging players, advocate tanking and how much you would pay for 'outside' players.

Others have thrown up interesting stuff about changing things, even shifting players around what could and might be done to improve the now They have given opinion not dogma.

Give me thinkers and doers, not whingers any day.

And I do not believe that Dennis is not above crititism at the moment. But I do trust him to sort it out.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Lucky he has you to "trust him to sort it out".. bet when he came out of your office he did the Toyota kick too.. "He tusts me! he trusts me!!"

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Synbad is anyone entitled to hold an opinion contrary to yours?

I don't know how you get through your normal life without getting in ten fights a day - don't tell me, you do get in ten fights a day, none of them are your fault, but you win them all.......

You're entitled to your opinion as an opinion not as fact. Argue agianst other opinions if you like, but give up the Patrick Smith snide, heavy handed sarcasm pills. You'll find the world is a happier place

Of course you can have an opinion contrary to mine. Debate it..
Now what do you wish to debate???

Yes people can tell me that Denis should never have been re-igned because he cant coach...and then talk Campo Kouta and Lance up...

at the end of the day i dont disagree with everyone and half the time i dont have an opinion on something..
however , when it comes to leadership.. down hill skiiers.. blood suckers.. contracts .. Lance and Campo in particular..the Carlton football club and its demise im a bitter twisted man... ..

I dont pretend im not pissed off with bloodsuckers and underachivers who are soaking up 1/3 of the salary cap at a time were at our all time historic low..

Im a sarcastic , bitter and pissed off chap when it comes to whats happened to the club...
Dont get so thin skinned because people in here have dished out just as much to me as ive given to them..
I know alot of people dont like me... they just dont have to read my stuff.

I would have thought it was simple.. i told dannyboy once and he will vouch to it. I dont read everyones posts....

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I have great respect for Pagan and will always be grateful for his effort, leadership and sheer ability in helping to rescue Carlton from the rabble they had become.

However, to me, 13 to 15 sums up, pretty comprehensively, just how badly our game plan is failing. This stat was the inside 50s at quarter time. We had it inside our 50 thirteen times to fifteen. Thirteen times!!!!! – resulting in the princely return of just 3 behinds.

Now you don’t need to be a Rhode scholar to work out something is not working and maybe it is because every time we go forward we bomb it to CHF.

I am sure any one watching the Wizard would have noted this and maybe thought, ummm, “why don’t I just drop another man back there - outnumber the poor bastard and get them on the rebound.â€

'Bitter and twisted' Yep we have figured that one out Synbad

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

I haven't seen saturdays game, so I can't say if he was outcoached on game-day or not

but I wonder if he's picking blokes in the right positions, and for their own development.

I think he's making some bad decisions in the match committee. I question if there's a development plan for half the kids.. and if there is, I wonder if they're any good.

I've gone into that in other threads.

I think its back to the drawing board time, especially when it comes to youth

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Love Cricket? Love me

Blame Denis, the only real star we have and who has done better than expected with a terrible list of retreads, average players and guys who are past it. As Denis said in the press conference, they were training well during the week so he didn't expect this type of performance. The players were responsible and the ones who are pocketing more than they deserve each week should take the blame for this peformance. If the players don't show up and listen to their boss instructions it shows there is going to be another clean out at the end of the year.